Descender order clarification

Hi all! I’m trying to brush up on my Teyvat history and I’m getting a bit scrambled as I read through Reddit posts and wikis, so I wanted to ask for clarification.

Basically: I get that the world was first ruled by Nibelung and the dragons. Then the heavenly principals showed up and invaded.

However if this is so then why is the HP called the first descender while Nibelung is called the second who came - shouldn’t it be the other way around since Nibelung was there first.

Similarly if the HP is supposed to be an invader/ colonizer then the “primordial one” label is also a bit confusing since it seems to focus more on creation than colonization.

I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me understand? I’ve been reading more and it’s just getting me more confused so I figured I’d ask for a clear/ straightforward answer.

Thanks for any help!!!

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dearmusic2026-01-03 08:14

Nibby isn't consider the first descender because he's the first ruler. He was the Teyvat's "native".

Primordial one is the heavenly principle. They are the first descender. Mind you the full definition of a "descender" isn't defined yet. Voyager and Skirk and Alice can all be considered "descender" at some extend, but they are not.

Some said that Nibby lost to the HP and seek abyss for help, came back and became the 2nd descender, because he's been corrupted by abyss so much that he returned as a different entity.

3rd mysterious descender (Saarelainen?) got split into gnosis pieces, and the cryo archon is trying hard to collect them again, so the 3rd descender might have a relationship with the archon. Some said the archon's father was a good friend with him.

And then the traveler siblings are the 4th descender. Either the main character is or their sibling is, there's still a lot of mystery around that.

Odd-Ruin-14482026-01-03 08:21

Aaah thank you! It’s the “Nibby was basically a different entity after leaving then coming back” bit that was confusing - so both a teyvat native and a descender depending on which version of him you’re referring to.

dearmusic2026-01-03 08:35

I just typed a whole essay and chrome decided to eat it up, sadness...

Basically, we know for sure who the first and 4th is thanks to Nahida, everything else you heard about 2nd and 3rd are all fan theories.

Some said Voyager is the 2nd and Nibelung is the 3rd, it's all just fans finding "evidence" and having fun with it.

LeagueOfHurricane2026-01-03 08:46

>Some said that Nibby lost to the HP and seek abyss for help

Nibelung was already gone by the time HP descended to Teyvat. He left in search of the Voyager and a power to escape Teyvat's fate of destruction. It was during Nibelung's absence that HP arrived and waged war on the 7 sovereigns.

>he's been corrupted by abyss so much that he returned as a different entity.

That's a very interesting thought but I interpret it the opposite way. The Heavenly Principles changed the nature of laws of Teyvat so much that when Nibelung returned, it's basically a different planet at that point.

dearmusic2026-01-03 08:49

>Nibelung was already gone by the time HP descended to Teyvat. He left in search of the Voyager and a power to escape Teyvat's fate of destruction. It was during Nibelung's absence that HP arrived and waged war on the 7 sovereigns.

Yeah that's the 2nd version I read, which made more sense to me too, cause Nibby made the 3 moon to guard the world in his absent. Agreed.

OkExtension72892026-01-05 12:00

This is what I thought too. PO changed Teyvat's laws not once but multiple times. Nibelung was considered after these changes as 'forbidden knowledge' himself, not fitting to new 'laws' at all. Same way the Moons were first co-operating with PO, but after their presumed betrayal PO threw them outside and basically altered 'laws' again so that Moons had no reason to exist in Teyvat anymore. That's why Columbina was rejected by Teyvat since her birth and needed another 'reason' to exist/belong in Teyvat beside the fact that she is an actual Moon Goddess.

Note that I'm not saying that Nibelung got Abyss corruption only because PO's new laws said his existence was now 'forbidden' in Teyvat. He got actual corruption, being not anymore part of Teyvat is separate thing.

Lucky-chan2026-01-03 08:25

The Heavenly Principles was the first to descend to Teyvat as an outsider with a strong will. However, when that happened, Nibelung had already left Teyvat and was not present in the initial war between the HP and the dragons. You can read more about the timeline in Fractured Halo's description.

In the book *Before Sun and Moon*, it details how the Primordial One remade Teyvat anew, so it makes sense they have the "primordial" label.

When Nibelung returned, he descended with the powers of the Abyss. Now at first, Nahida said that Descenders were *not* natives of Teyvat. But I believe because the Abyss was a foreign entity, Nibelung, along with his strong will, was classified as a Descender.

Lucky-Oven54672026-01-03 15:54

1st Descender: Phanes, Heavenly Reaver, Heavenly Principles, ect: Considered be both male and female in nature but is addressed as Male by Peirro. His arrival sparked a huge war for the planet while Nibelung left to get help. Phanes created 4 shining shades, "shadows" of himself(Life, Death, Time, Space) for this war. He usurped the dragons' thrones and terraformed Teyvet to make ideal and livable for humans.

2nd Descender: Nibelung, often addressed as the "Heavenly Father/King" was the original creator of this world and after a chance meeting with a starfairing observer he befriended tried everything to save his people from destruction, ordering research into space travel(think Star Trek for comparison). He would ultimately leave to seek this friend's help but would become corrupted by the Abyss, turning white scales black. His descension sparked the War of Vengance/War of Funerary Flame that almost destroyed Teyvet. This war would result in his "daughters" the 3 moons to be weaponized by him and ultimately perish. For reasons we yet to understand he and Phanes are implied by Neuvillette to have called a "Cease fire" in order to deal with a new Descender's arrival but this is unconfirmed and purely speculation. His fate is left currently unknown.

3rd Descender Ajax(Not Tartaglia): Also called Saarelainen in Hymns of the North, he was a regular Teyvetian human mortal that shared a close bond with the Second Cryo Archon when she was younger. Belyi Tsar gave him a task and challenge that ultimately would lead to what is implied to actually be a trap/betrayal that lead to his death. His body was created into the 7 Gnosis that would ultimately spark the Archon War, a Teyvet's version of the "Hunger Games" if you would. His death is also ultimately what many in theory sparked Tsarista Anastasya's vendetta against Celestia City and the gods ruling there.

These are very bare bone summaries with some facts mixed with popular theories and speculations I've seen. But generally to be a descender one only needs a strong will that can "Create", "Destroy", "Sustain", and "Protect" a world. All descenders bare these qualities along with frightening elemental control, unique constitutions, and strong wishes and desires.