I'm kinda disappointed that the whole Factions thing they used to hype nod krai wasn't really used in the main story
Before the start of nod krai they had that whole web event where we were shown all the factions in nod krai and it was kinda hinted that either they would be a main point of the story or the conflict between them would have been.
and yet we are basically almost done with the main story and most of them kinda didn't matter at all?
I also kinda remember a line from varka in one of the trailers that was something like "to beat rerir we will need all factions of nod krai to work together" and yet most of the plan was just playable characters doing stuff and even those that had a faction they could use to help, didn't really ask for help from them.
There was an hint of this whole "faction war" at the start with the whole frost moon scion vs fatui thing, but that kinda fizzled out pretty quickly, after that none of the factions really mattered and only the playable characters did.
and it's not like there wasn't any points in the story where we could have seen some of them actually do stuff to help.
For example during the whole crisis in nasha town with the cannon, you would imagine The Voynich Guild to actually be doing something to maintain the order considering they are supposedly the ones that try to do that and this is just a quick example that came to mind.
In the end I think all those teasers gave a wrong impression of the possible story of the region, especially when basically the majority of those faction that they showed didn't really matter at all.
and yet we are basically almost done with the main story and most of them kinda didn't matter at all?
I also kinda remember a line from varka in one of the trailers that was something like "to beat rerir we will need all factions of nod krai to work together" and yet most of the plan was just playable characters doing stuff and even those that had a faction they could use to help, didn't really ask for help from them.
There was an hint of this whole "faction war" at the start with the whole frost moon scion vs fatui thing, but that kinda fizzled out pretty quickly, after that none of the factions really mattered and only the playable characters did.
and it's not like there wasn't any points in the story where we could have seen some of them actually do stuff to help.
For example during the whole crisis in nasha town with the cannon, you would imagine The Voynich Guild to actually be doing something to maintain the order considering they are supposedly the ones that try to do that and this is just a quick example that came to mind.
In the end I think all those teasers gave a wrong impression of the possible story of the region, especially when basically the majority of those faction that they showed didn't really matter at all.
Commentaires
Video games are about movement and interactivity, about being able to reach out and touch something instead of having to imagine it. Books are about the printed word, symbolism and irony and imagination.
And a gacha is about selling gacha pulls. They won't do something that would make a player not want to pay for gacha pulls. Ie no faction warfare that might turn a player off a character because they belong to a faction the player doesn't like.
Playable characters from all different factions?
Also Nefer’s “organization” ended up being her and Jahoda and a cat. I know they tell us in text that it’s a powerful intel network but we just don’t really get a visual representation of that.
Narrative went from ‘competing factions in a cut-throat lawless land reluctantly setting aside their differences for the greater good’ to ‘power of friendship and tea’ real quick.
That being said I still loved it. Just not what I thought it was gonna be.
Ineffa the robot buffs Flins the fairy lightkeeper, meanwhile we've got a geo 4-star lightkeeper on his way to buff a geo 5-star adeptus.....
Jahoda & Nefer basically hate each other, both wanting on-field time, with Jahoda only useful at C6+, and even then it's questionable.
And lore wise he is literally the son of the leader of the light keepers, but he's male and not a waifu so he's cursed to be an irrelevant unit.
It really sucks that they refuse to make good male characters outside of few exceptions, especially since they are fewer in numbers too.
I mean, I like the adepti and I got all of them except for Ganyu (who I don't care much about) and Xianyun (who skipped me 😭) so I might pull for Zibai in the future, but only IF I like her character because design wise... I'm allergic to the way that they are """""dressing""""" basically all the female characters (and I'm a bisexual gooner, mind you).
Tbf, this one makes a lot more sense in faction as well when you realise the Lightkeepers depend a lot on the Krumkake Workshop.
I guess factions are now considered as a part of the characters' background instead of being a part of the whole world instead. Let's be optimistic though because it seems that the Lightkeepers are gonna be more involved in the next patch
Other than that, there are treasure hoarder related world quests throughout Nod-krai about some dead dude called Reed Miller that is completely separate from the main quests
/>Looks inside
/>literal promo material
Has "it's your head canon" replaced "vocal minority" as the buzzword of choice to ignore any meaningful criticism?
It's a shame but overall the Nod-Krai Archon Quests have been pretty solid. They dropped a ton of lore and tried out a lot of new ideas with the POVs in this one, so I'm ok with how it turned out. The teasers were misleading but I think they still delivered on the narrative
Nod Krai is different. It was advertised as a nation with no clear ruler and there are multiple factions vying for influence instead its not being presented properly as there are no conflict at all, everyone are friends
My reasoning was that this is how hoyo will sell the new region characters and meta
We technically did and need the new characters for the new reactions but the overworld moon thingy being nothing more than for puzzles was a bit of a letdown.
- Lightkeepers- flins, the lighthouse, deceased lightkeeper local legend, and the mention of Illuga who is coming out next patch
- Frostmoon Scions - Lauma and most of hisi island
- Knights of Favonius - Varka, Albedo, and Durin, with an appearance by Mika in a travelers tale and a mention of Lohen who’s probably coming up in the next archon quest.
- Hexenzirkel - Alice and Nicole
- Fatui - Arlechinno, Sandrone, Columbina, Dotore, and the Bureau itself
- Treasure Hoarders - many side quests deal with the tales of legendary theif and founder of the TH Reed Miller
- Wild Hunt - our primary antagonist throughout Nod Krai, heralded by Rerir
- Clink Clank Workshop - Aino and Ineffa
The only factions we haven’t seen much of are the Voynich guild, the Adventurers guild, and the Snowland Fae. But we’ll probably see more of these next patch too.
It show the stucture of faction, not just a names
Rerir was much too powerful of an enemy for anyone but the main cast to deal with, you aren’t gonna see John Lightkeeper squaring up against one of the 5 Sinners.
The same applies in Real life, even when working in unison, there will still be factions trying to surpass and dominates other for different sakes, politics, resources, economy, influence...
Sumeru had a cut scene where playable characters fought because of a misunderstanding, and that brief throw-away action scene had more ‘faction intrigue’ than NK.
The frustrating part is the framework is all present and could have offered really compelling conflict:
The Frost Moon Scions are virtuous by their doctrine, and provide food and aid to the people of NK but are also constantly proselytizing due to their declining numbers, perhaps propagandizing the fatui and their technology to get people to join out of fear. This would explain why the fatui foot soldiers are rude and critical of them- it would be more than just ‘fatui mean’. When it comes to the wild hunt, in theory they would want to help but are tied up in antiquated customs related to the moon, and so are slow to act/prioritize hiding and protecting Columbina rather than addressing the issue.
The Lightkeepers are fully aware of the threat of the wild hunt and actively take action, criticizing the Scions lack of action. However they are more militaristic and have a bit of a martyr complex as an organization. Their methods are crude and harsh, and while on paper they are the most straight forward faction, it’s hard to stomach their methods of sending understaffed inexperienced teams out to battle the hunt. Being the faction that is actively fighting the hunt and therefore losing members who die in battle, they are also trying to recruit new members, sometimes using strong arm tactics to pressure locals into joining their ranks.
Fatui are all right I guess but the contradiction of their soldiers attacking us on sight while traveler goes to tea parties with their leaders is annoying. Let Sandrone be just a little more… fatui-y. They could also be providing delusions to the Lightkeepers, (who would be desperate for the aid against the hunt) using them as unknowing experiments like they did in Inazuma.
Nefer’s intelligence agency 100% should have been introduced via Jahoda or an NPC stealing intel that traveler was trying to get, forcing him to track them down organically and adding tension to their role in the story. Nefer’s character arc of coming around to help selflessly would have been more compelling if she was more cutthroat at the start. A little bit of her playing the three sides to her benefit would have gone a looooong way, and the wanton massacre she orchestrated in her backstory already compromises her character a little bit, so I don’t think it would hurt her gacha pull rate.
Aino could have been a little more of a foil/anchor character to give a window into the experience of an unaffiliated civilian caught in the crossfire between these factions, as she uses her genius to try to protect the town, but each organization is trying to manipulate her to their benefit, while Ineffa struggles to keep her safe and out of the clutches of the others.
The playable characters of each faction could either come around to help the traveler through character arcs, or could start out as dissenting voices within their orgs that seek out the traveler for help convincing their leaders. We still get focus on those characters but they operate within the scope of their factions, and then even if it’s just in dialogue, we can believe that this fleshed out, living-breathing country came together to triumph over the Hunt, rather than the playable characters all acting on their own to have a friendship powwow.
As it is, they decided to focus on the Rerir/Sinners lore and Columbina Moon stuff almost exclusively- which was a really good compelling story, but was *very* straight forward, and it stinks that they dropped ALL the intrigue for it.
*Varka: “Given the severity of the situation, I think it’s fair to say that our only chance lies in uniting as one — and I’m talking ALL the factions in Nod-Krai.”*
The KOF and the lightkeepers are clashing with the wild hunt
The Frostmoon scions are at odds with the Fatui
The treasure hoarders are screwing everyone over
Some factions don’t have friction because it wouldn’t make sense. Clink Klank, the KOF, FS, and the Lightkeepers all want to protect Nasha Town and Nod Krai as a whole.
The Fatui want to protect Nod Krai so they can keep doing their research on the moons there.
The Hexenzirkel wants to help the traveler, and the traveler wants to protect Nod Krai.
That’s why they all put aside their differences and fight the Wild Hunt.
Calling the treasure hoarders a Nod Krai Faction is like calling Hilichurls a Nod Krai Faction; they’re just everywhere. Also they didn’t do anything in the AQ so I’d say that no, they didn’t cause friction either.
Otherwise, You’re correct about the lack of conflict with many of the Factions. That’s the exact issue we’re critiquing here. Of course there won’t be friction if you don’t write it into the story, but then don’t have Varka talk it up like getting everyone to work together will be a big intense chore, and don’t hype up Nod Krai to be a lawless land with competing factions when everyone holds hands and sings kumbaya. That’s the whole point of this discussion.
Edit: to address the scions and the fatui- that is the closest we get to intrigue, especially with the scion woman who betrays them. That’s was pretty good. But the fatui doing exactly 1 bad thing and then backing off was really weak as intrigue goes. Especially since they are kinda supposed to be the bad guys anyways. It’s scooby doo level intrigue at best.
Edit: more concise closing sentence
Also, I find it funny, how the Voinych guild was almost the first thing we heard about Nod-Krai and there are a lot of boxes with the logo, but the guild is non-existent nor in the story, not in the world quest (or I don't remember at least).
The NK factions were hyped up to be a huge part of the story only to find out that its just people working together as theyve always had. There isnt even any serious conflict between fatui and frostmoon scion faction aside from that one part in lauma's intro.
The Voynich Guild is technically represented by the Curatorium of Secrets.
People thought Arlecchino will be the big bad enemy, turns out to be an ally and even very minor role at the Main AQ. Her children had more scenes than her.
People thought Capitano would be the major enemy in Natlan and would clap Mavuika. He got clapped and died instead.
People thought Columbina would be something scary hidden monstrous entity squeezed between Arlecchino, Dottore and Capitano, turns out to be a misunderstood Waifu that is the Main Character of Nod Krai. Also people thought Nod Krai being a "Lawless Land" would be so chaotic with the factions going on, none of that happened. Everybody is very peaceful despite everyone hating on the Fatui while the Fatui dominates the island but are so chill.
In the trailer, Chasca is talking to her dead sister, and Capitano joins a friendly match tournament, which only established after the AQ ended. And the biggest hint, Kachina already knew how to use Kamera, while in the AQ, Kachina only learn about it after we meet her.
Why Kachina learning to use Kamera is the biggest hint? Because from narrative perspective, there is no reason to spent effort to write it into the story.
but we know how that shit go
they've been doing fakeouts since forever
We fought Childe as the main villain of Liyue Arc won as in the trailer. We fought and defeated Raiden as the Main Enemy as the trailer said. We saved Nahida in Sumeru as the trailer said minus the Burning Tree.
But this is given the fact that Mondstadt up to Sumeru's story had been pretty much straightforward with barely any plot twist and goes directly to what everybody predicted. So, I guess, they can't do much of a fakeout when the story itself doesn't provide much twists.
It would be fun and of course it is very unlikely he was stabbed on purpose, just likely an accident while trying to catch like Cacacu as he was flying around or something.
World quests And exploration also
Not sure what’s going on in genshins writing team. Their lore can show adult, mature themes, but what we see in actual gameplay is Sesame Street
But ultimately it's because its a gacha game and characters need to sell and be fun in events so they don't want too much conflict with the playable cast, not every gacha is like this but this is what hoyo does unfortunately.
They basically don't even exist in the main plot right now 😂
Like Treasure Hoarders was hyped up and turned out nothing burger. Nothing was changed from their past relevance to the game. I thought they'll even finally release a big bad Treasure Hoarder character. But what we have is just a reformed and turned Voynich Guide member Jahoda.
You also have the Snowland Fae that has literally 0% involvement in the story when Flins was more like a Lightkeeper doing Lightekeeper things.
All the faction reps somehow became cordial or god forbid friends at the end of the day, and they go above and beyond to fight the common good. Lauma and Frostmoon would never agree to work with the Fatui such as Sandrone and Arlecchino. Nor would they work with Aino and Ineffa. Nefer would never act so altruistically. Arlecchino would never participate in Nicole’s ritual so willingly alone among factions potentially antagonistic towards the Fatui. Sandrone wouldn’t let people come in and out of the Fatui base as they please, especially the Traveller who has been murdering Fatui across the continents. Varka literally has no known skin in this game so why would he devote any resources altruistically in any Nod Krai events. Flins and the light keeper has no skin after Rerir is defeated. Nor would Aino and Ineffa care about Columbina or Dottore.
Essentially, everyone is supposed to be dealing with each other at arms length but somehow isn’t doing it. And no faction is taking advantage of this chaos to advance faction’s objective.
I’m not saying they couldn’t work together, but they can work together begrudgingly. The better example of how this is done was back in 1.0 in Liyue, when it was clear that the Qixing, and the Adepti weren’t on the same page, and that they suspected each other of foul play resulting in Zhongli’s fake death, but still worked together against Osial.
Flins from the snow fae and light keepers
Varka from the knights of Favonious
Nefer from the curatorium of secrets
Jahoda from the treasure hoarders
Lauma from the Frostmoon scions
Nichole from the Hexencircle
Aino and Ineffa from the Workshop
Possibly Sandrone from the Fatui
Sadly it is very rare from the game to do anything large scale involving anything but playable characters working together.
I think it would do the game good to have some disagreeable characters that aren't just straight up villains honestly. A extremely vast majority are straight up good people or, if they're not their faults get sanitized by the time drip marketing for their banner starts.
no he should have a redemption arc where he reintegrates into society, learns the culture, makes friends, recognises his wrongs and over time his outfit colour changes to the current one
Stepping into irminsul to have his sudden redemption feels strage, like the writers were too lazy to make an actual redemption arc because he is now a playable character and needs his sins cleansed as soon as possible
And worse of all the terminus has to change the goddamn script for firefly because the trailblazer was so heartbroken by her death... what???? What is this asspull????
I have never been, and never will be, a fan of people changing other people's memories. Its lame and a plot device 99.999% of the time to avoid explaining sudden drastic changes in character
To be completely honest, 3.8 was the first time I abused the crap out of the skip button every time Firefly appeared when I read through the entirety of the Aranara quest line. I genuinely hate how her character is being portrayed & pushed.
One of my complain in general in Genshin
The closest we have is maybe childe and wanderer, but even they have become liked and spoken favorably by the other characters in the game. i want to see more drama and friction between them, especially in cutscenes.
Aren’t you jumping to conclusions a bit too fast?
And the factions (save for the Treasure Hoarders and the Voynich Guild) did end up banding together. Like much of Genshin, the Archon Quest can only hold so much complexity before it starts to become too convoluted. The real lore is in the world quests and character quests where you do end up interacting with the other factions and you do end up sensing that there's an uneasy tension in Nod-Krai between them.
Nay, from Fontaine. Absolutely *bamboozled*.
I love it, more connecting between the already cordial factions please.
What we see in the archon, world, and character quests:
\- The Wild Hunt just wants to fuck shit up
\- The Lightkeepers keep the Wild Hunt at bay
\- The Krumkake Craftshop indirectly supports the Lightkeepers with the cannon. They'll support anyone with Mora or sweets.
\- The curatorium of secrets has their finger in every pie in the region, and has a contact with every faction.
\- The Frostmoon Scions want to be left alone
\- The Fatui absolutely do not let the Frostmoon Scions alone
\- The Knights of Favonius are there for... reasons. Likely we'll find out around Varka's release
\- The Hexenzirkel is trying to maintain Teyvat's borders, which happen to be in Nod-Krai.
\- The Krumkake Craftshop supplies robots for anyone with mora
\- The Voynich Guild is just trying to keep everything together.
\- The Treasure Hoarders see Nod-Krai as a safe haven and as a spiritual birthplace.
They're not vying for control in the political sense, but they all have a foothold and are competing for resources or influence. Most of them are just trying to do their jobs, and that involves dealing with other factions.
dude politics is about resources and influence
Isn’t this just alice? I dont recall other members doing much with the border (except barbeloth trying to gaze beyond it with water reflections)
It's a very interesting mental exercise to imagine Nod Krai without the Wild Hunt.
Krumkake wants to protect the town.
Fatui refuse to leave the Scions alone and that causes more problems than the lackeys could possibly know or the leaders measure properly.
Idk I feel like if if the fatui didn’t piss off lauma they would’ve had a shot, but unclear that they knew what they were opting into, so it’s in character for their usual meddling, but it’s their unintended outcome for certain.
Poor cocky bastards really didn’t know who they crossed, I still remember her line of “I will draw a line in the snow with your blood.” And she isn’t even the worst person to make an enemy of. Girl tried literally “come sit at our table and let’s talk” but they will get destroyed on the wrong side of her wrath.
They introduced this faction and then also proclaimed that this is a fucking Lawless Land. It's true that it's still a Lawless Land. But if you heard that, you'd expect that the entire thing is chaotic with all the Factions Introduced 'vying for control'.
But none of that happened. Nod Krai is even way peaceful than Mondstadt, Liyue, Inazuma, and Sumeru even with the Huge number of Fatui Ruling the Island and people stating they hate that. But it's just so peaceful.
\- The Wild Hunt is a faction
I'm just giggling at the thought of Nefer just having a nonplused look while listening to a zombie with *fire* for a head gurgling unintelligible gibberish with the occasional actual spoken word.
Nefer: "Uh huh...yeah...oh that's new...Jahoda! You wrote that down, right?"
Jahoda: "I, uh...could you repeat that last, er...all of it?"
Nefer: \*sighs\*
Wild Hunt: "argrargbhl gib appologems"
Tbh thats just the draw back of these "chapter" storytelling. Like you can legit make a whole game "just" about Nodkrai/Amphoreus and everything in it. But since we are in a gachagame, only the playable character get focused and everything else just so so unless you are into reading.
1. Genshins Archon Quest mostly focuses on playable characters.
And there mostly the current roster. Additionally later characters models are probably also not ready to be used meaning their faction might not be included.
2. The pacing is too fast.
Even at its slowest the Archon Quest is still overall fast paced. Factions or Characters that arent important to the plot wont receive much time and arent developed much. Which means they cant be incorporated later as well. And despit this AQ being one where multiple threads connect together and older factions such as Varkas Expedition and the Hexenzirkel being finally incorporated its still just 3 people. But since the focus lies on the current roster they need their time as well.
What this Archon Quest has done well is to keep the Characters that have been released active and included as well as having some old characters included.
I liked Inazuma but I would rather have this over having bunch of NPC to deal with. Leave them for the world quest.
This entire thread is like, "Theres 6 patches left but we haven't seen enough of all the factions, DOOM"
-All the three commissions conflicting about power, resources, and to make them side with either the shogunate or the people for influence
-Army of Sara vs resistance
-shogun vs us
-Fatui siding with the head of a commission to commercialize delusion to the resistance, because said chief was corrupted with signora
It was full of tension everywhere and it was also the reason the traveler was the only one to confront signora at the end (alongside sara), because everyone in the nation was busy with it's own agenda, wether political or military and werent siding with him on a whim (only ayaka and yae miko so far were but still), which made the stakes higher.
Here we just have power of friendship all over the place, and the fatui who was once the faction that used to enact these type of conflict are now friends with us?
but nah have to sell Character by sacrificing story lol.
Natlan has "factions" in that there are tribes, but none of them are really at odds with each other in any meaningful way.
Genshin just doesn't do factions and conflict no matter how the story seems to say that it is or will.
Hoyo ALWAYS do this sort of stuff. They "hint" and make seem something big happens but then... nope. Nothing. Same with the Fatui, remember the scene with all of them reunited? Planning to do something? welp... 80% of them are friendly, not bad at all. No criminal plans, nothing hahaha
We call this in my country "vender humo" , meaning, selling smoke. They try to make it something big and it ends up being a nothingburger. Don´t expect much form Shneznaya