How did alice let rhinedottir join the hexers group ? Gold is one of the most vile and evil person in teyvat
Commentaires
Seth-Phiroth2026-01-08 15:13
Rhine was looking for a job /j
Tbh not sure if the reason why she joined the witches was mentioned in the but iirc Alice was aware of Rhine actions in her homeland unless I'm misremembering
syzons2026-01-08 15:15
i did think this was a jarring inconsistency yeah, although given how obvious of an exception rhinedottir is to this rule i doubt the writers just forgot about it (cluegi)
RamenPack12026-01-08 15:16
Not sure, I love the hexenzirkel but have always hated rhinedottir… I really hope we get an actual reasoning… Durins SQ makes it even weirder
324Cats2026-01-08 15:18
they will probably be softening rhinedottir off a bit in future
Void0Cat2026-01-08 15:19
Because a)- Alice isn't a saint herself and b)- the only criteria for joining is being "interesting".
The Hexenzirkel is not the Justice League.
Edit: For anyone curious: read Teyvat Travel Guide to see how wildly irresponsible and frankly immoral Alice is. She treats the Geneva convention like its the Geneva suggestions.
smittywababla2026-01-08 15:45
What about that line Nicole said above?
Dougline2026-01-08 15:49
Has nothing to do with joining the group tho
DneSepoh2026-01-08 15:50
Taking care of children and only children does not fit the criteria of Justice League. Kids Next Door - now that kinda works.
Ketzeph2026-01-08 15:54
Nicole has different opinions than the others most likely. Or they just ignore the rules. It’s pretty clear Alice is *in* the circle with friends but that if the circle ever tried to stop her from doing what she wanted she’d ignore it.
Nicole is just a good person who sticks to rules. The others not so much
ErenYeager6002026-01-08 17:10
When your the only one with morals in your friend group
Neoragex132026-01-08 17:46
Designated driver and probably the only one the group, along Durin's Mom, who Venti was genuinely happy to welcome every time the group went to Mondstad
Harouki2026-01-09 04:25
She was trying to give freedom to Durin who got dealt a shitty hand in life. What’s not to love about her?
Void0Cat2026-01-08 16:02
And......Anyone can say whatever they want, doesn't mean it's true. Plus, the criteria for joining the group is still "being interesting" as confirmed by Varka if I recall correctly.
Nicole is either ignorant or she's blind and delusional about the purpose and member of this group because she has a different agenda than the rest and thinks everyone is onboard with her ideas, but that is simply not the case.
Plus, Alice doing destructive and immoral things has been the case for a while. This is nothing new.
Read Teyvat Travel Guide to see how wildly irresponsible and frankly immoral Alice is. She treats the Geneva convention like its the Geneva suggestions.
Any group made by such a person will naturally not be an altruistic one.
Here's some excerpts:
**Hilichurl perpetual motion machine idea:**
>"What if we built a huge spinning ball-shaped cell in the center of the valley and threw all of the hilichurls into it? That way we might be able to generate enough energy to power all the mills in Mondstadt for at least five years. If we took it one step further by grinding the hilichurls that are too old or too weak into food and feeding them to the strong ones, we might just build ourselves a perpetual motion machine that can support a huge factory like in Snezhnaya! It seems totally feasible to me."
>"The Anemo Archon is a bit too undisciplined for me. If I were a god, I would not have allowed my realm to look so unorganized and ragged. With enough bombs placed in proper positions, even huge cliffs like Starsnatch would crumble into dust in a second. With flatter terrain, Mondstadt would surely look much nicer. But that unctuous Cavalry Captain rejected my proposal instantly. He even asked me to stay away from Starsnatch Cliff."
>"Yet another forest in Mondstadt. This Outrider named Amber seemed to know her way around this place. The explosive toy she carried around caught my attention. With some tweaks, I could turn it into something that could blow this forest and even the nearby mountains into smithereens easily. My proposal seemed to scare her. But an explosive stuffed toy is indeed a brilliant idea. I must try it out next time."
>"My attempt to control Ruin Guards with hilichurls failed as well. The guard split into pieces, and as for the fate of the hilichurl strapped onto it... I will spare you the gory details. Half of the ruins were also destroyed in the process."
>"Now as for his daughter, Yoimiya, she's an interesting young lady. We collected a lot of sweets during the festival and tried all kinds of new formulae out. That was so much fun! ... It's just a shame that that grumpy general kept too close an eye on us — or else I'd have helped Yoimiya improve some of her gadgets, or even spirited her away."
>"This reminds me of the time, not long ago, when I was preparing a medicine that would allow for flight in the Imperial Kitchen. It blew up due to a mistake of mine, injuring a young tengu warrior to the point where her left wing would have needed, say, half a month to recover. I had wanted to help her patch the wound up, but it seems as if she's been avoiding me ever since... Well, I left her some medicine all the same, just to see how its effects would turn out."
Didn't even mention "fixing" echo so that instead of stuttering when he talks, he just repeats the last thing someone else says.
Or giving bombs to children in Inazuma.
Drakengard2026-01-08 20:58
She makes Dottore almost seem reasonable.
mrmanny00992026-01-08 16:12
*Geneva Grocery list
She’d prolly go ‘I didn’t even think of half of this!’
Chrysostom47832026-01-08 17:24
More likely "These guys need to dream bigger."
notthatjaded2026-01-08 15:19
Alice picks people she finds interesting.
corecenite2026-01-08 15:20
We don't know the ff:
1. How Alice and Gold meet.
2. What Gold did with Abyssal power to gain the title of a Sinner. (look at Rerir, he became a Sinner to save his lover). Sure, she made Abyssal creatures but that
3. If Alice is omniscient; that she knows every little thing that happened in the catastrophe.
---
The only thing that we know so far is that Alice invites ***interesting*** people to the group... and well, Gold is indeed interesting enough.
jesthingjester2026-01-08 21:10
I don’t think Alice needs to be omniscient to know about Gold’s atrocities. Gold is one of the infamous five sinners. It’s highly unlikely Alice doesn’t know. Plus, Alice canonically breaks the fourth wall and knows about events without being physically present.
kyooomi2026-01-08 15:21
Varka states that Alice's criteria for accepting someone into the group includes them being an "interesting individual", which Gold definitely is. Also, considering some of Alice's own projects and ideas, I wouldn't say she's a character that can be described as morally good anyway.
CalendarMobile63762026-01-08 16:17
Alice is probably at same level as gold once we get to know more about her “vacation”
PassionateJessica2026-01-08 17:02
klee definitely takes after her mother
LandLovingFish2026-01-09 03:14
The real reason Venti keeps the group under his eye: because the day they forget their morals he's going to be the one cleaning up their mess.
Mystic9871232026-01-08 17:05
more like Klee tbf
Meleagros2026-01-08 21:56
I mean I wouldn't be surprised if having Klee and having Klee raised by Monstadt softened Alice or humanized her
Willster3282026-01-08 16:20
Yeah I think lots of people see Alice as a "good person" and in reality I think its mostly performative. Theyre pragmatic to the point of needing to make exceptionally tough decisions that are likely very controversial to the status quo, but that doesnt mean shes heartless.
I actually think of Alice like Urahara from Bleach. Theres a facade to who they really are
AdministrationOk31132026-01-08 16:55
Mr. Hat and Clogs mentioned
ErenYeager6002026-01-08 17:08
Tbf I think some of that comes from the game trying to frame her as such. Paimon word for word said Alice is a good person and the Traveler nods along
Hoyo is pretty flip floppy when it comes to the morality of characters they want to sell
ScantilyKneesocks2026-01-08 17:15
The traveler and Paimon don't know much about Alice. Of course they are going to think she's a good person.
To put it in perspective, it's like looking at Rainbow Quartz having no idea she's Pink Diamond. You don't know what you don't know.
ErenYeager6002026-01-08 17:17
Of course they don't know much about her but they do know who she associates with and after dealing with Rerir one would think they would have questions on why she's friends with Gold
ledlock2026-01-08 18:00
We know a LOT about Arle and her actions and collaboration with the Fatui, yet Paimon calls her a good person and our friend. Hoyo is very flip-floppy with how their morally grey characters are to be perceived, especially if they are women. Once they are on screen and on the path to be playable the characterisation suddenly starts to absolve them of any crimes and unlikeable actions they have committed in the past.
Lubinski642026-01-08 18:46
Paimon calls anyone who is our friend "good", which from a very subjective point of view makes sense but it's obviously not a just and objective assessment of morality. Paimon also never calls Traveler out for killing all those Treasure Hoarders despite us being a treasure hoearder (I mean "adventurer") ourselves.
If you assume almost every character in Genshin is somewhat morally hipocritical the whole story makes a lot more sense.
Malschaun22026-01-08 19:59
Don't treasure hoarders vanish in smoke like ninjas? Im pretty sure that's supposed to imply they are still alive, just running.
Lubinski642026-01-08 22:03
Some do but if you hit them hard enough they ragdoll and disintegrate like hilichurls. They can also drown so i'm rather certain we do actually kill many of them.
Overquartz2026-01-09 00:23
But the vary first travel guide we got had it mention she wanted to make a generator powered by Hillichurl aka cursed Khaenri'ah civilian cannibalism? So either they didn't even read the travel guides they bothered to pick up or they (and by extention the writers) forgor.
Geraltpoonslayer2026-01-08 17:53
Well, tbf this because pretty much no character in genshin that is even in proximity of being playable is allowed to be evil. This is why so many love dottore because he's unapologetically evil. But even then, if he's ever playable, they will just introduce a segment he didn't delete. That is actually a good/Grey guy who was working behind the scenes against the evil dottore segment.
ErenYeager6002026-01-08 17:57
Oh yeah they definitely try to avoid that. I'm a late player so I missed the original discussion but I was so pissed when they tried to whitewash Raiden actions and completely brushed aside Childe shenanigans
Like she word for word said she knew what the Fatui were doing yet didn't stop them cause it lined up with Eternity but then she says she had no clue.I like her more after doing her Story Quests but at the time I did the Archon Quest I was genuinely questioning why the Traveler was cool with her
Now for Childe they handled even worse. Why in God's name would you put character development in limited time Events. I was so confused on why the Traveler was so chummy with him in Fontaine
omegavolt92026-01-08 19:00
Inazuma archon quest was a good idea with terrible writing, if things had been a little different with the pacing and storytelling it could've told a great tragic story about someone who lost everything and locked themself in their own mind, and even 500 years later still doesn't know what the correct path forward is. Meanwhile the puppet housing her mind rules the nation and gets increasingly corrupt from the path she was originally set to follow without Ei herself realizing.
It's been a while since I played it but I think they also missed an opportunity to have Ei take that "let your disciples carry on your ambition" lesson from the start of the archon quest to heart and have her become resolute in carrying on her sister's ambition.
scottygroundhog222026-01-08 18:43
I think alice is kind to “her people” but if you dont fall in that category you might as well be an ant alice isn’t the kind of person to squish ants for fun but if the ants get hurt i imagine she’s pretty meh about it
GrumpySatan2026-01-08 18:44
My read is its performative like she is playing a role in a story. I don't think Alice sees Teyvat or anyone on it as 'real', except for Klee and maybe the Traveler.
To her, she is reading the "Book of Teyvat" where she made herself a self-insert character. This is why she breaks the 4th wall constantly and why she only connects with "interesting people". The Hexenzirkle are basically her favourite characters in the story she is reading. Everyone else is just someone through which she can experience stories.
So when she suggests things like her Hilichurl machine, they are literally not people to her. The same way how movies will make armies out of generic monster/aliens so the audience doesn't feel attached to them or think about how brutal it is for the hero to mow down hundreds of them.
Express-Bag-39352026-01-09 03:12
I see Alice as pretty apathetic to everything and very one in Teyvat really. She likely sees herself as the main character in the interactivr storybook she is participating in, known as Teyvat.
I have a suspicion that Alice knows she is a video game character, and could totally see it end up as an animation vs animator situation. Gotta get Alan Becker on it STAT.
royal_doggy2026-01-08 19:00
To be fair, you’re judging Alice’s morality from a human standpoint. She’s NOT. She’s almost all powerful and aloof, concerned about things the magnitude of universes. She maintains the worlds borders, travels between realities and has lived for who knows how long.
We don’t call a child focused on chasing a ball evil because they are unaware they’re stepping on ants half the time, even if they play and smile when they notice the insects
GrumpySatan2026-01-08 16:43
I'd add that Alice herself says in Durin's SQ that Anya was the one that taught her how to understand human emotions. Which... doesn't inspire hope about her moral compass.
She does say one of their jobs is cleaning up after Rhinedottir though so maybe some of their rules were from "Jesus fuck R, okay new rule..."
Sounight1142026-01-08 17:32
R: "It's not a war crime the first time it's done."
JDBCool2026-01-08 17:48
Think the rule is: "we do not specifically SEEK children to be involved. Collateral is fine"
AngrySlime7062026-01-08 18:36
Initiating project Child Endangerment.
Jotaoesehache2026-01-08 19:14
Gold: well, I didn't mean for the children to die, it just sort of happened
SilverGarnet122026-01-09 02:26
Gold: Ignore the children of mine I feed to Durin, you don’t have to worry about that detail.
BuilderAura2026-01-09 00:15
R is Canadian or something XD
AdministrativeShip22026-01-08 18:11
Better to have her inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.
Petter17892026-01-08 19:22
> She does say one of their jobs is cleaning up after Rhinedottir though so maybe some of their rules were from "Jesus fuck R, okay new rule..."
Just like the Knights of Favonius rulebook
HERODMasta2026-01-08 17:03
Reminder and small story spoiler, that Alice behaves like most players would behave as the protagonist in Skyrim or a sandbox game.
She even calls teyvat a playground. The Hexencircle is like the discord mod group of a game.
roughhty2026-01-08 18:15
That’s a good way of looking at it. Like most folks are npc to her
MemeWindu2026-01-08 18:09
It's even funnier because she not only had a duplicitous list of things she has likely done or tried to do
But also instead of removing a book with a nuclear bomb spell out of the Monstadt library or even putting it on a shelf too high for Klee to reach up
She left it with a magical seal. Alice you dumbie, Klee can use magic. There is gonna be a day where she finds that book, accidently blasts the seal open, and then accidentally nukes Monstadt thinking it's a fishing tool
TakeyoThissssssssss2026-01-08 18:38
Alice is cleary not human so her sense of "morality" is not what us human consider to be.
Maybe Alice let Gold joined her cuz it easier to keep an eyes out for Gold crazy experiments like that,
BandicootFar41262026-01-08 15:22
Because Rhine is as crazy as Alice...
Tbf, I think Alice let her join the circle to keep her under her sight or something.
Real-Contest49142026-01-08 15:32
Honestly that's probably the same reason the shades did it.
Keep her in sight, with a leash and a shade watching her every move at all times.
Khronify2026-01-08 15:22
Have they directly said the actual timeline of when she joined the hex and left? I always assumed based on Durin's Story Quest that she joined the hex before the cataclysm then after becoming a sinner, she distanced herself from the group.
fatefuldawn2026-01-08 15:34
It’s possible that in recent times she has distanced herself. But we know for sure that Rhinedottir didn’t distance herself immediately from the group after the Cataclysm since we saw in Durin’s story quest that Rhinedottir was with Alice and Andersdotter when Mini Durin was created (who was created in response to Dragonspine Durin wrecking havoc and dying during the Cataclysm).
ArvingNightwalker2026-01-08 15:38
Didn't she also give approval when Albedo created current Durin during Paralogism (though it was relayed through Alice).
fatefuldawn2026-01-08 15:53
Oh, that’s true. Here’s the exact line in Paralogism:
>Albedo: Master never showed her face, but if the Hexenzirkel knows what I've done, that means she knows as well and gave her approval.
So you’re correct as long as Albedo isn’t wrong in his assumption.
Kostuchan2026-01-08 16:21
They were talking about Witches Homework. Rhinedottir sends Albedo a message, confirming she's keeping eye on him and works with other Witches.
Kostuchan2026-01-08 16:18
We don't know when exactly she joined, the earliest we got is shortly after Cataclysm. Though seeing as the witches were familiar with each other, she must've been one for some time already.
She never left. She's still an active member.
_krays2026-01-08 15:23
That's a good point about Alice! It’s wild how she lets some of them into the Hexers group. Gold’s definitely one of the most chaotic characters in Teyvat
Living_Thunder2026-01-08 15:23
I headcanon that Nicole somehow hasn't heard of any of that. Otherwise this line right here is laughable
Impossible-Ice1292026-01-08 15:25
Notice that in all of the tea parties we have seen of the hexenzirkel, Nicole wasn't there (not 100% about the 3.6 stuff)
Bluecoregamming2026-01-08 15:56
She doesn't seem like the kind of person to be left in the dark. I think it's more likely this was a throw away line meant to explain Nicole's own character more, but the writers didn't realize it doesn't make much sense to claim the entire group is this way
SquishyBruiser2026-01-08 16:15
Nicole was also talking to a child. It's way easier to make a child accept "sorry I'm not allowed to do that and the people that could allow it aren't here", than "I don't wanna".
Geraltpoonslayer2026-01-08 18:10
Nicole is a seelie who are genuine pure good beings. Nicole is probably oblivious that the hexenzirkel is primarily a group for like-minded ambitious people to get stronger and fulfill their goals. Like alice requirements to join the club is for her to find you interesting and alice is closer to rhinedottir than Nicole that's for certain. That said could also be case that alice mellowed out a bit with age and well motherhood and being the sustainer of the heavenly borders a job I'm assuming she seems to have taken on with the disappearing of asmonday
Technical-Sun-37462026-01-08 15:25
How do we know Gold is so evil. Mind you I have been playing this game since beta and have read everything.
strongestforeskin2026-01-08 15:28
>how do we know gold is so evil.
You should play genshin impact maybe you are playing other impact
putih_salju2026-01-08 15:42
I regard her as chaotic neutral.
Crazy but not inherently evil. She's a true scientist/alchemist and just loves doing experiments. Whether her creations end up doing people good or instead harming people across nations, she just doesn't care.
Unless there's some lore I missed when she did experiment with the intention of causing havoc in Teyvat (which I probably did).
ComfortableTraffic122026-01-08 15:47
Just curious, do you think Dottore is also chaotic neutral then?
putih_salju2026-01-08 15:57
If manga's Dottore is considered, then he's chaotic evil. He conducted human experiments. It's already amoral by human standards.
If it's only Sumeru's Dottore, then he's chaotic neutral.
I don't know enough about Dottore's motives in Nod Krai.
Shahadem2026-01-08 16:24
Sumeru Dottore is still chaotic evil. He knew the experiments were harming people but he did them anyways for his own personal benefit.
Shahadem2026-01-08 16:23
Dottore overtly harms people.
-Wandering_Soul-2026-01-08 16:24
The big difference between Rhinedottir and Dottore is that Dottore often hurts people in experiments, while Rhinedottir's experiment themselves too the hurting.
One is the person doing bad things, the other is something the person created doing bad things.
CoconutxKitten2026-01-08 15:26
There’s no moral qualifier to join the group. Alice is chaotic neutral & her interest is things that fascinate her - whether it’s a an author or a batshit sinner
I think if she was aligned with one of our moral friends, it’d make sense to question. But this is Alice, who lives off vibes, not morals
Shahadem2026-01-08 16:22
Chaotic evil.
She engages in evil out of enjoyment. So evil is her nature.
Dalek-baka2026-01-08 15:26
Speaking of vile people, this was something that Alice proposed to Lisa (who rightfully ignored it):
>The three hilichurl tribes Meaty tribe, the Sleeper tribe, and the Eclipse tribe located in this valley are all densely populated. What if we built a huge spinning ball-shaped cell in the center of the valley and threw all of the hilichurls into it? That way we might be able to generate enough energy to power all the mills in Mondstadt for at least five years. If we took it one step further by grinding the hilichurls that are too old or too weak into food and feeding them to the strong ones, we might just build ourselves a perpetual motion machine that can support a huge factory like in Snezhnaya!
So she's not a saint herself and R kind of fits.
hhhhhBan2026-01-08 15:46
Doesn't she also suggest some kind of Hilichurl catapult as well? She's like Klee on substances
Seifty_First2026-01-08 16:01
Klee on substances is sending me
VelinorErethil2026-01-08 16:16
Makes you wonder what is in all that tea...
Dalek-baka2026-01-08 16:11
Yes, she did - she tried to test if Hilichurls can reach Celestia and started launching them, to her disappointment furthest distance was from Windrise to Springvale. This time it was Jean who stopped her.
Nokanii2026-01-08 18:28
Not that I doubt you but where did this happen or get stated? I’ve tried looking around and can’t find anything about a catapult.
Dalek-baka2026-01-08 18:34
It's in Teyvat's Travel Guide:
>At the center there is a huge oak tree. It is said that Vennessa ascended there. I searched around the tree for a long time but did not find any launching device.
I grabbed some hilichurls nearby to put my theory to the test. Sadly, the longest flying distance was from here to the hunters' huts around Springvale. How disappointing.
YurxDoug2026-01-08 16:24
She didnt suggested it… She did it.
Khelthuzaad2026-01-08 16:27
She IS Klee on substances.
Klee started playing with leftover explosion material left by Alice after she was done bombing Old Monstadt
LameSillyHero2026-01-08 17:03
She is basicly a Klee without a child's innocence.
Geraltpoonslayer2026-01-08 17:56
Hell, in durin story quest part one in thr library. There is a book called strongest spell in existence (don't show Klee). Traveller asks Lisa about it Lisa says Alice wants this book hidden from Klee, Traveller assumes it's because it would be because it's dangerous to which Lisa corrects him and says alice doesn't want to spoil Klee and that is for when she's older lmao.
Shahadem2026-01-08 16:17
But you can't create a perpetual motion machine by feeding Hilichirls to Hilichirls as you will run out of Hilichirls.
corfean2026-01-08 16:23
Don't they respawn or something because of the curse?
katbelleinthedark2026-01-08 16:37
No, they just kind of turn into goo.
EddyConejo2026-01-08 19:24
At some point they'd stop being conscious though. I'd call that death.
cartercr2026-01-08 16:30
I keep seeing this talked about, do you know where it is mentioned at? I’m guessing it’s from the really early game, but I just don’t remember it at all.
Wonderful-Lab73752026-01-08 16:43
I think it’s in the Mondstadt chapter of the Teyvat Travel Guide. You can find it in the Archives section for all the readable books.
cartercr2026-01-08 17:23
Thanks! I’ll go take a look when I hop on later!
Dalek-baka2026-01-08 18:18
[Here you have full text of the Travel Guide](https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Teyvat_Travel_Guide) and some more of Alice's 'accomplishments'.
SeaAdmiral2026-01-08 17:25
Lisa also immediately goes "none of my business, I'm going to stay the fuck away from this thank you very much" the moment she even sniffed a *hint* of hexenzirkel in the witch's homework quest. I trust her judgement.
Student-Brief2026-01-08 20:29
Imagine if that was the reason she decided to never get involved with the Hexenzirkel again
Dry_Description_84722026-01-08 23:31
Also she turned an NPC called Echo into an Echo of everyone. Je had a stutter and she gave him a potion that removed it but made him repeat everything
Ossuum2026-01-08 15:26
Tell me you haven't seen the hilichurl collider project without telling me you haven't seen the hilichurl collider project.
strongestforeskin2026-01-08 15:31
I know about the one where she wanted to throw hilichurl to celestia or there are more
Void0Cat2026-01-08 15:38
I am pretty sure she also wanted to run a cannibalization machine or experiment where she feeds old Hilichurls to younger ones. Though calling this an experiment is a little inaccurate, it's closer to torture.
MNUUUUU2026-01-08 16:23
God forbid a witch have hobbies
Way_Moby2026-01-08 15:40
I will say, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was written before the whole “hilichurls were cursed by Celestia” lore dropped. (When the game began, Id betcha anything at h the hilichirls were intended to be nothing more than colorful Generic Enemies.) That said, I don’t know if that makes it anymore morally defensible; if anything it just feels a tad less sociopathic.
katbelleinthedark2026-01-08 16:43
To be fair, the first indication that hilichurls were just cursed people dropped in 1.2. Pretty early game.
Way_Moby2026-01-08 17:12
What ref are we talking about?
ngmonster2026-01-08 16:50
I feel like the hilichurls being cursed by celestia was always intended. It was always theorized to be the case, and games like this usually plan out major reveals like this way in advance.
Way_Moby2026-01-08 17:13
Something like that probably was in the cards. I just meant, even a small tweak to their origin can make Alice look way more sinister than they may have intended
Shahadem2026-01-08 16:19
I don't see the problem with that project.
If it were a crusade mode project I could sign off on in Pathfinder: WotR I would do so every playthrough.
ImGroot692026-01-08 15:27
not trying to justify, but what we knew of Rhinedottir's war crime so far were mainly from her creations, not from her own hands. it's still bad obviously. im guessing Alice just saw her as like a mother yearning for a child or something along the line.
-Wandering_Soul-2026-01-08 16:20
Exactly, like, Rhinedottir is a pretty vile person, but she ISNT evil, she is vile because she doesn't care what her creations do, she only cares that she was able to create them to begin with. And she isnt evil for the same reason
Important-Owl-3732026-01-08 16:21
people just assume the sinners are pure evil because they have the title of sinner, but sinner is a reference to violating the rules of the heavenly principles.... the heavenly principles which genocides entire civilizations with nails.
mizukis_ribbon2026-01-08 15:33
The very question you are asking is prolly one of the reasons why Lisa never trusts Alice and wants nothing to do with her except being an ally of Knights of Favonius.
Arkaydi42026-01-08 15:35
It definitely would have made more sense if Nicole had worded it as more of a personal thing. She is an angel after all, and we learned from the Lord of the Night that angels are meant to be the helpers of humanity. Characters like Alice and Rhine seem to care only about their own children, not the children of Teyvat as a whole.
Major_Economy_5712026-01-08 16:20
I wouldn't be surprised if Nicole wasn't a saint herself. Teyvat Angels' love for humanity is their flaw.
Sybilla had no persona, she wished to grant humans happiness and created Phobos which satisfied people's destructive wishes and lead Remuria to its destruction.
Lord of the Night accepted sacrifices, incl. the sacrifice of prisoners of war, it seems.
Nabu Malikata assisted Deshret in seeking the forbidden knowledge despite knowing that it would lead to the disaster...
Arkaydi42026-01-08 16:53
You do have a good point, there.
markcan_killua2026-01-08 15:36
cos it’s alice if it was up to nicole it may have been a different story
Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo2026-01-08 15:37
I don't know why people find this line to be incongruous with Rhinedottir. As far as we (and the Hexenzirkel, more importantly) know, she's never harmed or experimented on actual children. Though the lore and story refer to Albedoes 1 & 2, Durins 1 & 2, Elynas, etc. as "children" in a sense, they weren't on the same level as Klee or Aino.
uwu_mewtwo2026-01-08 15:54
Never harmed children except by making the monsters of the apocalypse with her own hands, that is.
Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo2026-01-08 16:00
Yes. Directly harming children is probably what Nicole was specifically referring to. In the same way a firefighter who says "I will protect children from harm" probably isn't considering the children who are indirectly harmed by that firefighter's support and consumption of Nestle products.
I don't think the writers were ignoring Rhine's actions so much so as not counting them as harming or experimenting on children. Otherwise... *Address Me* 🐘
siegheldr2026-01-08 16:03
ah yes, my favorite.
i will detonate this nuke and explode this entire city, but i don't punch children, that would make me a bad person
ComfortableTraffic122026-01-08 16:01
Yeah lol. I'm sure no kid in Teyvat ever died during the worst of the Cataclysm caused by Durin, Elynas, or rifthounds 😂
Important-Owl-3732026-01-08 16:17
This is actually easy to understand if you use chinese fantasty literature logic: elders arent suppose to interfere with the lower generation's fights, so when mommy's new born monster wrecks havoc in the world it's literally not her fault nor is it her responsibility, it's just kids fighting amongst themselves. Lisa doesnt like these crazy witches for a reason.
Icy-Childhood-45872026-01-08 15:39
As the keeper of borders she wanted to befriend the most likely person to message with the borders. /j
andrewlikereddit2026-01-08 15:41
Well alice seems to have a few screw loose too.
parrotandpeacock2026-01-08 15:42
rhinedottir isn't a child
Tron_bonneLoFi2026-01-08 15:42
We killed sandrone/columbina/arlechino friend and all of them still are nice to us. Why would Alice care about one or 2 small war crimes Rhine committed?
Teivat girls don't seem very resentful.
-Wandering_Soul-2026-01-08 16:27
We didn't kill La Signora, she killed herself by failing to control her bad habits
Exdeath-EX2026-01-08 15:46
Well, while true to her..being an angel and all, its probably not fully representive to what the others think about the subject...
Sometimes people just speak like that (refering to the group they belong to instead of just themself) to make the point they are trying to make have more weight.
Stormer23452026-01-08 15:51
The Hexenzirkel protecting children doesn’t mean that they are a morally good faction.
A lot of the time, Genshin shows that people can do both good and bad things at the same time, and still not be completely good or completely bad people.
omegavolt92026-01-08 19:08
The most direct example is House of the Hearth. Arlecchino is very good to her family and people on her good side all think positively of her, but they're still basically an elite crime syndicate and people on their bad side will likely have nothing good to say about them.
Stormer23452026-01-08 19:30
Or Sandrone. She cut out someone’s tongue (I think), and her actions in Nod Krai can be seen as that of a coloniser. Yet she is shown as having friends, and feeling loss and guilt, and is allowed to be her own character and person.
She has both good and bad in her and I think that gives her (and Genshin characters in general) a really nuanced portrayal of the human condition.
omegavolt92026-01-08 19:33
Some people can't stand the idea of a flawed or multifaceted character. I personally like it when characters are complex and nuanced
Status_Degree1482026-01-09 16:47
You're right about the tongue thing. It was a in a Fontaine World Quest, which, fun fact- actually ties in with Aino's reputation quest. The robot in that quest is the remains of the core of Curve, and the "Chard" name comes from the name of the Melusine Talochard, his companion.
LandLovingFish2026-01-09 03:17
Half of that is probably "alice has a kid and is somewhat resppnsible enough to know you shouldn't do that to kids who look like your kid and could be friends wih your kid"
Strange-Pen12002026-01-08 15:55
Some of the timing in the Durin quest makes me think that Gold was in the circle before she became a sinner (It appears Anya made mini-Durin before the cataclysm). And we got the impression from the Rerir memories that Gold was kind of underfunded and unappreciated in Kan (there's a few digs made about her not being in the Magistrorum).
So my suspicion is that she wasn't actually as bad when she joined the circle as she later became, and then is now.
ComfortableTraffic122026-01-08 16:12
How could Anya make Mini-Durin before the cataclysm when she made him explicitly as a way to rewrite the tragic fate of the Og Durin? That scene is definitely post-cataclysm.
RowanWinterlace2026-01-08 15:57
Considering how evil many of the people are in Teyvat, I'd actually disagree with you OP. Rhinedottir probably isn't really that bad, in comparison...
Heavy2992026-01-08 15:57
as if alice wouldnt have been worse if she was alowed to be, wasnt she the one who made the hilichurl death camp thing? where they force hilichurls to do some kind of work like spinning a wheel or smth while the stronger hilichurls get fed the dead, weaker hilichurls and the only reason why she hasnt gone out and built it is bc jean said "what the fuck no??????? huh??????????? the fuck is wrong with you??????"
(honest to god i dont remember if this was a meme or an actual thing, wouldnt doubt it being her idea tho)
detrimidexta2026-01-08 15:58
She provides good brothers to Klee – that's more than enough.
ThatOstrichGuy2026-01-08 16:02
When did people get such simple views on people/groups of people?
Initial_Estimate61392026-01-08 16:02
You try to find regular people's morality among powerful rulers of the world... They are not like politics or billionaires in our world - they have much more knowledges and powers. And they not trying to make every person happy like superheroes from comics, they try to save the whole Teyvat
gacha_drunkard2026-01-08 16:03
Tbh Alice is more scary to me than Rhine.
WeissCream2026-01-08 16:04
Genuine question, but do we know if Gold is still currently with the hexenzirkel? I thought I read that the witches haven’t met together for a tea party for a long while which could indicate that gold is simply no longer part of it, making Nicole’s line accurate now
pumaflex_2026-01-08 16:04
they are all evil, it's just that some of them are "less" evil than Gold and also they are on our side so everything is ok
Gregamonster2026-01-08 16:05
Because she isn't vile or evil?
She's responsible for a lot of death and destruction, sure. But she doesn't intentionally want to harm anyone. It's just a side effect of her research.
ytj_2026-01-08 16:06
PETA is an organization that cares for and protects animals. They must be saints /s
furyofSB2026-01-08 16:07
Alice herself is a morally questionable witch and certainly not free of being vile and evil.
Zek7h35an52026-01-08 16:11
Honestly even beyond Rhinedottir this line is hilarious. Alice gave her own daughter bombs strong enough to carve out a substantial amount of Mondstadt's landscape. Barbeloth (for some reason) would chase Mona around enough for her entire combat skillset to revolve around running away. I think the only other member we know about that had some interaction with a kid that didn't inherently put them in danger was Andersdotter, and even then you could probably make an argument around knowing that sharing his name with the Durin on Dragonspine would lead to him having to go through unprecedented hardships.
tj22862026-01-08 16:13
Its almost like she and the rest of the Hexers views most of Tevat as 'storybook' characters, not entirely real, just petri dish creations they watch over and keep out contamination. Occasionally, something comes that sets itself apart that is worth special attention.
Rush1662026-01-08 16:13
Considering we know nothing about Rhinedottir's motivations or history, this seems like a rather superficial opinion to me.
Alice is not a kind character.
Witches are a mixed group pursuing their own interests; they are not "good guys."
Alpacachoppa2026-01-08 16:14
I mean yeah she's horrible on an objective basis but she's never outright used kids to do dangerous stuff. That's the entire point of Gold I see many people missing or not getting. Rhine is an absolute ass BUT she's not one on purpose, more like a kid with an ant farm.
-Wandering_Soul-2026-01-08 16:15
The thing about Gold, is that she ISNT actively evil. She is the archetypal scientist/researcher who only cares for the process and the result, not what comes beyond that. Once the experiment is done Gold basically doesn't give a shit what happens.
Nothing Gold made was done with the intent of "I'm going to deliberately fuck up the lives of everyone in horrible ways with my evil, evil, EEEEVIL creation"
She just does extremely dubious experiments with even more extremely volatile sources, and doesn't actually care about the nature of her end product.
Is she a good person, fuck no, definitely not.
Is she evil? Also no, evil requires malicious intent.
She is certainly very very VERY vile though.
Shahadem2026-01-08 16:16
Isn't the criteria: "be a witch"?
The criteria is not: "be a sinless saint"
ExtremeQuestion6102026-01-08 16:17
I think the Hexenzirkel should kick Gold out for what she's done
CalendarMobile63762026-01-08 16:17
Thing is that’s only OUR point of view from our current understanding of the whole picture. The truth might be different than what we see or understand right now, especially after all the gate keeping genshin does all the time.
Honestly, genshin shall lore drop now because its getting too late for all the stuff cuz they keep feeding us crumbs
MNUUUUU2026-01-08 16:18
She rolled a nat 20 in persuation when doing her application
BikeSeatMaster2026-01-08 16:20
Because she didn't set the monsters free to attack and kill people?
Like bruh, she made them but she kept them locked up properly in the Universitas until the Vinster King freed them.
NoAcanthopterygii8762026-01-08 16:21
How did the person with unconventional morality allow another person in the same spectrum to join her group of misfits?
3stoner2026-01-08 16:26
Because the hexenzirkel aren't the Knights of Favonius or some peacekeeping group. Just a bunch of women with interesting hobbies.
Plus-Theme-32832026-01-08 16:27
People read so much into that tbh (ironic i know) it can be just nicole bing nice with aino nothing more or less
Mahinhinyero2026-01-08 16:37
but doesn't this line of Nicole only applies to children? we don't know if R experiments on children except her own "kids"
MiniMages2026-01-08 16:40
Alice is a sociopath, she doesn't do anything for charity. She doesn't help someone because they need help. She does stuff that brings her entertainment and if it will ensure Klee is safe. Everyone else is irrelevant to her in the grand scheme of things.
RCTD-2612026-01-08 16:41
what makes you think they made the rule before Rhinedottr join the Hexenzirkel?
even in real world, the rules were **made after** bad things happened, **not before**.
BackgroundRadish92742026-01-08 16:45
There are people who follow the rules (Nicole) and people who the rules were the reason they were put in place (gold and Alice).
While that's the view Alice probably recruited Nicole with, Hexenzirkel is more like Alice's book club, so I doubt they look super deep into each others affairs.
Vivid_Cover_17212026-01-08 16:49
Imagine they hoyo does some satella and the witch of envy shit but for rhinedottir instead
Extension_Papaya62342026-01-08 16:56
The Fatui is an organization that cares for and protects children.
- The Knave
cyber-cavalier2026-01-08 16:56
Given how the Luna II memories of Rerir strongly suggest the Cataclysm was caused by King Irmin having some kind of Dead Man's Switch to unleash the Abyss in the event of his demise, I kind of expect them to absolve Rhinedottir by having her not be responsible for actually setting all of her creations free to ravage Teyvat.
Now the morality of actually creating Durin, Elynas, the Bukuwana, the Rift Hounds (though those might have been present in the Eclipse Dynasty per the Perinheri book) and etc is another matter, but judging by how they've presented Alice it might be laughed off...
spartaman642026-01-08 16:58
i think its becoming clear that you cant trust everything that dain says. we dont know for sure what role gold played in the cataclysm and durin who we thought was evil turned out to be misunderstood.
thwrlsgenshin2026-01-08 17:05
you mean Alice, who wanted to feed hilichurls with hilichurls and use they as cannonballs? How I wonder...
Kingpimpy2026-01-08 17:07
why does the same shit get posted every week?
we got it okay
i swear i have seen exactly that screenshot and title 4 times already
TheScalieDragon2026-01-08 17:07
I think only Nicole holds that guidelines while Alice is very loose about it
allmistake22026-01-08 17:07
I wonder if R wasn't a member before she became a sinner. We dont know exactly how old the Organization is, but we know that several of its members are easily 500+. It's possible that prior to being a sinner, Gold was just a crazy alchemist bent on creating life, and that it was only being affected by the abyss that caused her creations turning into a major problem. Considering Bikunawa ate part of her, it does suggest she didn't fully control her abyssal creations.
Not that I personally want or think this to be the case. I think evil Gold is more interesting, I just think this is the most plausible way to spin her not being as terrible. She still f-ed up, but this way it could be less intentional. Either way she strikes as someone similar to Dottore in that she doesnt really care about the collateral damage of her research, so I still wouldnt be surprised if she just made some crazy stuff and didn't care about the harm it caused.
crickastic2026-01-08 17:12
I mean Alice isn't a saint either, she probably found Gold's actions amusing
Arnorien16S2026-01-08 17:12
Much like how you can pet your dog and eat a chicken leg at the same time, Alice/Gold are higher beings ... Her behavior would depend on who she is interacting with, her favorite pets or her snack or some curious bugs she came across. And when it comes to her companions, the mad scientist next door would be more of her peer than her dog who guards her home.
Fablespielt2026-01-08 17:17
As if Alice is not an evil baddie
Rhveit2026-01-08 17:21
Agree with the comments saying that Alice is also morally questionable but I do want to add that I think Rhine is supposed to be a mad scientist type of character.😅 Like she doesn't necessarily consider the consequences of her actions type of villainy is her forte instead of actual malicious intentions playing at her heart. So focused on and obssessed with her creations, that anything else is kinda negligible, right?
mindgamehagi2026-01-08 17:22
Keep in mind that Alice is THE entity that keep balance on Teyvat and monitor external forces. She even probably know about Rhinedottir new position or straight up she might even be on contact with the Shades themselves. She probably have to power to even put Neuvi full straight at his place if something happen.
azul3602026-01-08 17:25
Probably because Alice is also pretty evil so like.....yeah it's not a shock XD.
Orion_of_Accalon2026-01-08 17:30
In teyvat, let’s ignore the guy so evil he left teyvat
Lunar_Lunatics2026-01-08 18:40
Dawg she wanted to bring back slavery I don't think she's a good judge of character
ghhostr2026-01-09 05:23
How come you get permanently banned for this post LMAOOOOOO 💀💀
Commentaires
Tbh not sure if the reason why she joined the witches was mentioned in the but iirc Alice was aware of Rhine actions in her homeland unless I'm misremembering
The Hexenzirkel is not the Justice League.
Edit: For anyone curious: read Teyvat Travel Guide to see how wildly irresponsible and frankly immoral Alice is. She treats the Geneva convention like its the Geneva suggestions.
Nicole is just a good person who sticks to rules. The others not so much
Nicole is either ignorant or she's blind and delusional about the purpose and member of this group because she has a different agenda than the rest and thinks everyone is onboard with her ideas, but that is simply not the case.
Plus, Alice doing destructive and immoral things has been the case for a while. This is nothing new.
Read Teyvat Travel Guide to see how wildly irresponsible and frankly immoral Alice is. She treats the Geneva convention like its the Geneva suggestions.
Any group made by such a person will naturally not be an altruistic one.
Here's some excerpts:
**Hilichurl perpetual motion machine idea:**
>"What if we built a huge spinning ball-shaped cell in the center of the valley and threw all of the hilichurls into it? That way we might be able to generate enough energy to power all the mills in Mondstadt for at least five years. If we took it one step further by grinding the hilichurls that are too old or too weak into food and feeding them to the strong ones, we might just build ourselves a perpetual motion machine that can support a huge factory like in Snezhnaya! It seems totally feasible to me."
*Teyvat Travel Guide Vol. 1 — Mondstadt Chapter — Dadaupa Gorge entry*
**Wanted to blow up Starsnatch Cliff:**
>"The Anemo Archon is a bit too undisciplined for me. If I were a god, I would not have allowed my realm to look so unorganized and ragged. With enough bombs placed in proper positions, even huge cliffs like Starsnatch would crumble into dust in a second. With flatter terrain, Mondstadt would surely look much nicer. But that unctuous Cavalry Captain rejected my proposal instantly. He even asked me to stay away from Starsnatch Cliff."
— *Teyvat Travel Guide Vol. 1 — Mondstadt Chapter — Starsnatch Cliff entry*
**Planned to weaponize Amber's Baron Bunny:**
>"Yet another forest in Mondstadt. This Outrider named Amber seemed to know her way around this place. The explosive toy she carried around caught my attention. With some tweaks, I could turn it into something that could blow this forest and even the nearby mountains into smithereens easily. My proposal seemed to scare her. But an explosive stuffed toy is indeed a brilliant idea. I must try it out next time."
— *Teyvat Travel Guide Vol. 1 — Mondstadt Chapter — Whispering Woods entry*
**Destroyed half of Brightcrown Canyon's ruins:**
>"My attempt to control Ruin Guards with hilichurls failed as well. The guard split into pieces, and as for the fate of the hilichurl strapped onto it... I will spare you the gory details. Half of the ruins were also destroyed in the process."
— *Teyvat Travel Guide Vol. 1 — Mondstadt Chapter — Brightcrown Canyon entry*
**Blew up arcades at Stormterror's Lair:**
>"I blew up a few arcades so people can climb up the tower more easily. Looks quite good to me. The ruin feels more ancient now."
— *Teyvat Travel Guide Vol. 1 — Mondstadt Chapter — Stormterror's Lair entry*\*
**Threatened to "spirit away" Yoimiya:**
>"Now as for his daughter, Yoimiya, she's an interesting young lady. We collected a lot of sweets during the festival and tried all kinds of new formulae out. That was so much fun! ... It's just a shame that that grumpy general kept too close an eye on us — or else I'd have helped Yoimiya improve some of her gadgets, or even spirited her away."
— *Teyvat Travel Guide Vol. 3 — Inazuma Chapter — Inazuma City entry*
**Injured a young Tengu warrior:**
>"This reminds me of the time, not long ago, when I was preparing a medicine that would allow for flight in the Imperial Kitchen. It blew up due to a mistake of mine, injuring a young tengu warrior to the point where her left wing would have needed, say, half a month to recover. I had wanted to help her patch the wound up, but it seems as if she's been avoiding me ever since... Well, I left her some medicine all the same, just to see how its effects would turn out."
—*Teyvat Travel Guide Vol. 3 — Inazuma Chapter — Inazuma City entry*
Or giving bombs to children in Inazuma.
She’d prolly go ‘I didn’t even think of half of this!’
1. How Alice and Gold meet.
2. What Gold did with Abyssal power to gain the title of a Sinner. (look at Rerir, he became a Sinner to save his lover). Sure, she made Abyssal creatures but that
3. If Alice is omniscient; that she knows every little thing that happened in the catastrophe.
---
The only thing that we know so far is that Alice invites ***interesting*** people to the group... and well, Gold is indeed interesting enough.
I actually think of Alice like Urahara from Bleach. Theres a facade to who they really are
Hoyo is pretty flip floppy when it comes to the morality of characters they want to sell
To put it in perspective, it's like looking at Rainbow Quartz having no idea she's Pink Diamond. You don't know what you don't know.
If you assume almost every character in Genshin is somewhat morally hipocritical the whole story makes a lot more sense.
Like she word for word said she knew what the Fatui were doing yet didn't stop them cause it lined up with Eternity but then she says she had no clue.I like her more after doing her Story Quests but at the time I did the Archon Quest I was genuinely questioning why the Traveler was cool with her
Now for Childe they handled even worse. Why in God's name would you put character development in limited time Events. I was so confused on why the Traveler was so chummy with him in Fontaine
It's been a while since I played it but I think they also missed an opportunity to have Ei take that "let your disciples carry on your ambition" lesson from the start of the archon quest to heart and have her become resolute in carrying on her sister's ambition.
To her, she is reading the "Book of Teyvat" where she made herself a self-insert character. This is why she breaks the 4th wall constantly and why she only connects with "interesting people". The Hexenzirkle are basically her favourite characters in the story she is reading. Everyone else is just someone through which she can experience stories.
So when she suggests things like her Hilichurl machine, they are literally not people to her. The same way how movies will make armies out of generic monster/aliens so the audience doesn't feel attached to them or think about how brutal it is for the hero to mow down hundreds of them.
I have a suspicion that Alice knows she is a video game character, and could totally see it end up as an animation vs animator situation. Gotta get Alan Becker on it STAT.
We don’t call a child focused on chasing a ball evil because they are unaware they’re stepping on ants half the time, even if they play and smile when they notice the insects
She does say one of their jobs is cleaning up after Rhinedottir though so maybe some of their rules were from "Jesus fuck R, okay new rule..."
Just like the Knights of Favonius rulebook
She even calls teyvat a playground. The Hexencircle is like the discord mod group of a game.
But also instead of removing a book with a nuclear bomb spell out of the Monstadt library or even putting it on a shelf too high for Klee to reach up
She left it with a magical seal. Alice you dumbie, Klee can use magic. There is gonna be a day where she finds that book, accidently blasts the seal open, and then accidentally nukes Monstadt thinking it's a fishing tool
Maybe Alice let Gold joined her cuz it easier to keep an eyes out for Gold crazy experiments like that,
Tbf, I think Alice let her join the circle to keep her under her sight or something.
Keep her in sight, with a leash and a shade watching her every move at all times.
>Albedo: Master never showed her face, but if the Hexenzirkel knows what I've done, that means she knows as well and gave her approval.
So you’re correct as long as Albedo isn’t wrong in his assumption.
She never left. She's still an active member.
You should play genshin impact maybe you are playing other impact
Crazy but not inherently evil. She's a true scientist/alchemist and just loves doing experiments. Whether her creations end up doing people good or instead harming people across nations, she just doesn't care.
Unless there's some lore I missed when she did experiment with the intention of causing havoc in Teyvat (which I probably did).
If it's only Sumeru's Dottore, then he's chaotic neutral.
I don't know enough about Dottore's motives in Nod Krai.
One is the person doing bad things, the other is something the person created doing bad things.
I think if she was aligned with one of our moral friends, it’d make sense to question. But this is Alice, who lives off vibes, not morals
She engages in evil out of enjoyment. So evil is her nature.
Speaking of vile people, this was something that Alice proposed to Lisa (who rightfully ignored it):
>The three hilichurl tribes Meaty tribe, the Sleeper tribe, and the Eclipse tribe located in this valley are all densely populated. What if we built a huge spinning ball-shaped cell in the center of the valley and threw all of the hilichurls into it? That way we might be able to generate enough energy to power all the mills in Mondstadt for at least five years. If we took it one step further by grinding the hilichurls that are too old or too weak into food and feeding them to the strong ones, we might just build ourselves a perpetual motion machine that can support a huge factory like in Snezhnaya!
So she's not a saint herself and R kind of fits.
>At the center there is a huge oak tree. It is said that Vennessa ascended there. I searched around the tree for a long time but did not find any launching device.
I grabbed some hilichurls nearby to put my theory to the test. Sadly, the longest flying distance was from here to the hunters' huts around Springvale. How disappointing.
Klee started playing with leftover explosion material left by Alice after she was done bombing Old Monstadt
If it were a crusade mode project I could sign off on in Pathfinder: WotR I would do so every playthrough.
Sybilla had no persona, she wished to grant humans happiness and created Phobos which satisfied people's destructive wishes and lead Remuria to its destruction.
Lord of the Night accepted sacrifices, incl. the sacrifice of prisoners of war, it seems.
Nabu Malikata assisted Deshret in seeking the forbidden knowledge despite knowing that it would lead to the disaster...
I don't think the writers were ignoring Rhine's actions so much so as not counting them as harming or experimenting on children. Otherwise... *Address Me* 🐘
i will detonate this nuke and explode this entire city, but i don't punch children, that would make me a bad person
Teivat girls don't seem very resentful.
Sometimes people just speak like that (refering to the group they belong to instead of just themself) to make the point they are trying to make have more weight.
A lot of the time, Genshin shows that people can do both good and bad things at the same time, and still not be completely good or completely bad people.
She has both good and bad in her and I think that gives her (and Genshin characters in general) a really nuanced portrayal of the human condition.
So my suspicion is that she wasn't actually as bad when she joined the circle as she later became, and then is now.
(honest to god i dont remember if this was a meme or an actual thing, wouldnt doubt it being her idea tho)
She's responsible for a lot of death and destruction, sure. But she doesn't intentionally want to harm anyone. It's just a side effect of her research.
Alice is not a kind character.
Witches are a mixed group pursuing their own interests; they are not "good guys."
Nothing Gold made was done with the intent of "I'm going to deliberately fuck up the lives of everyone in horrible ways with my evil, evil, EEEEVIL creation"
She just does extremely dubious experiments with even more extremely volatile sources, and doesn't actually care about the nature of her end product.
Is she a good person, fuck no, definitely not.
Is she evil? Also no, evil requires malicious intent.
She is certainly very very VERY vile though.
The criteria is not: "be a sinless saint"
Honestly, genshin shall lore drop now because its getting too late for all the stuff cuz they keep feeding us crumbs
Like bruh, she made them but she kept them locked up properly in the Universitas until the Vinster King freed them.
even in real world, the rules were **made after** bad things happened, **not before**.
While that's the view Alice probably recruited Nicole with, Hexenzirkel is more like Alice's book club, so I doubt they look super deep into each others affairs.
- The Knave
Now the morality of actually creating Durin, Elynas, the Bukuwana, the Rift Hounds (though those might have been present in the Eclipse Dynasty per the Perinheri book) and etc is another matter, but judging by how they've presented Alice it might be laughed off...
we got it okay
i swear i have seen exactly that screenshot and title 4 times already
Not that I personally want or think this to be the case. I think evil Gold is more interesting, I just think this is the most plausible way to spin her not being as terrible. She still f-ed up, but this way it could be less intentional. Either way she strikes as someone similar to Dottore in that she doesnt really care about the collateral damage of her research, so I still wouldnt be surprised if she just made some crazy stuff and didn't care about the harm it caused.