Warm take. Asking for your favorite DPS to be Mavuika level is stupid because Mavuika powercreep was a mistake and we need less of it.
Engagement bait photo
Commentaires
TieFit10102026-01-09 16:28
Correction: Neuvillette was the Mistake, Mavuika was the Aftermath of that mistake.
oof-eef-thats-beef2026-01-09 16:32
No. Neuv was meta but not game breaking. Mav did not *need* to powercreep him twice over. That was a decision Hoyo made.
Fabulous-Bag-39192026-01-09 16:41
During his release he was clearing the abyss solo with craftable weapon, not only his damage was high but he can also self sustain , he also got most brain dead gameplay.
ZerotheChance2026-01-09 16:48
Uh no? Neuvi broke the game cause of how strong his abilities were. He literally had a way for players to spin around while he's using Hydro Pump to utterly decimate everything around him, which wasn't even something Hoyo meant for his character, and when they took it out of the game as a "fix" everyone lost it and forced them to return the bug. Any other character that has had a game breaking bug like this gets it fixed asap.
As a result of his power-spike they had to have enemies spike in HP because of how many were using him, and more characters needed to be made with his damage numbers in mind because of the enemies jump in health.
TYRDurden2026-01-09 16:34
Love it when in these discussions people ignore how unhealthy Neuvillette was for the game and how for a full year he overshadowed every single DPS in Fontaine and how many shill abysses and blessings he got during that time. Almost every DPS after him was designed to be weaker than him so he was overshadowing future release too. This led to Mavuika being as strong as she is tho they overshot with her power level and didnt anticipate the new combos so that was another mistake from this dumb balance team.
You could even say Stygian Onslaught was a result of people just spamming Neuvillette in abyss for years. A boss focused endgame to counter the AOE monster.
HelloPeopleImDed2026-01-09 16:57
the thing is, Neuvilette was an actual mistake because Hoyo tried to "fix" that bug but it was too late, people were already too used to the playstyle that they revolted and it wasn't worth the primos to compensate it being taken away.
Mavuika was worse because the mega powercreep was intentional for drip marketting
parthmestry2026-01-09 17:16
Tbh I don't think hoyo anticipated the Mavuika combos either.
HelloPeopleImDed2026-01-09 17:19
i feel that its a powercreep even without these combos. And even with the phlogiston restriction, C1 Chasca is almost illegal in open world exploration.(the way she powercrpet Xilonen when it comes to scaling inclines) Which I feel that Nod Krai is good for pulling back on it (even if I'm kinda sad that Columbina or Durin with WING motifs have no flying exploration buffs)
unohanadrider2026-01-09 17:31
that was just the spinning Neuvillette tech that basically no one was using lol, and that "bug" was irrelevant 98% of the time.
the big deal is that it made him slightly awkward to play when it comes to redirecting your beam in abyss. but that was nobody's real complaint.
parthmestry2026-01-09 17:16
Because Fontaine good Natlan bad.
ThatOstrichGuy2026-01-09 17:33
But but but Natlan bad. Thats all it is. Neuvillette + Furina was the first huge jump in power creep the game had. Furina instantly raised your team DPS significantly. Neuvillette solod the abyss for an entire year. Add them together and it was ridiculous.
Plus they are rhe best element in the game. Long lasting off field hydro app makes teams work. And Neuvillette stays relevant because he can drive all different types of teams.
bastianwibisana2026-01-09 16:39
though neuvillette and arlecchino (and navia was just a complete upgrade over itto) were levels above everyone, the entire natlan (5.x) roster kept the same power level if not better (mualani, kinich, chasca, mavuika, varesa, and skirk). at least back in fontaine, the likes of lyney, wrio, clorinde, and chiori didnt really break the ceiling iirc
Melodic_Matter_95052026-01-09 16:46
Itto was not that great even on release.
Being an Itto upgrade is not saying much
bastianwibisana2026-01-09 16:57
well that is true. even as a newer character than liyue big 3, itto didnt really compete with them (ganyu, hu tao, xiao) on his release so yea XD
WorozuTop42026-01-09 17:05
pretty sure lyney held the single target ceiling in his release ans kept that title for quiet a while (or at least was the best for speedruns, i forget which it was). he had the same problem as mualani tho, despite technically being the best he feels so bad to play literally no one cares about them
HiroHayami2026-01-09 16:39
Neuvillette didn't even have the highest DPS. He was just piss easy to play.
Tyberius1152026-01-09 16:44
The way Neuvillette was effortlessly soloing abyss chambers at low investment and then got a fully synergistic support on top of that one patch later, and everyone just thought it was fine is the second biggest wonder in Genshin's history.
SecyaDenali2026-01-09 16:50
Yeah but no one ever mentions C6 Fischl on doing the bottom side do they?
That floor was and is a joke
pc_player_yt2026-01-09 16:55
because Fontaine glaze
HelloPeopleImDed2026-01-09 16:58
the thing is, Neuvilette was an actual mistake because Hoyo tried to "fix" that bug but it was too late, people were already too used to the playstyle that they revolted and it wasn't worth the primos to compensate it being taken away.
Mavuika was worse because the mega powercreep was intentional for drip marketting even in her pre-release showcase
ShoppingFuhrer2026-01-09 17:15
Fr, Abysses spawned enemies in lines to make it even easier for Neuv to Hydro pump them
The amount of Pyro Abyss mages in the Abyss to shill for him (& Furina) kept cockblocking my Lyney Mono Pyro team, and this was just one patch after Lyney was released. Like bruh
Yes, he was a very powerful release.
But that was because of comfort and versatility, HU TAO was technically out damaging him. (Esp on his release).
Now, Mavuika.
Well she was 30-60% than ANY character in the game IMIDIATELLY.
No, Nev and Mavuika are miles apart
kujah_0h2026-01-09 16:52
Neuvillette could effortlessly beat the abyss on craftables and remained on top no matter the setting. He was a problem. Not only that, there were few mechanics that could stop him because he's ranged, has Burst per Second, some minor sustain that can be played around quite well, and limitless application and his ult allowed minimal application offield as well.
Arlecchino could reach the DPS, but lacked any utility and lagged behind uptime.
SnooCheesecakes91832026-01-09 16:48
Neuvillette was never much stronger than everyone else. His value came from that he was so easy to use that his higher DPS was easily reached while characters like Lyney and Xiao (after Xianyun) were not far from him and Arlecchino (she was released after but still kinda works) had higher DPS. They were just not nearly as easy to play and good with as many supports. Mavuika’s introduction increased DPS more than ever before and increased HP pools along with it. Even though Mavuika was harder to use, her single nuke burst was already better than most of the other characters in the game, to the point that even messing up reactions on her charged attacks still made her the best DPS in the game. Then you saw Varesa release who was at a different level compared to the early Natlan carries. Then Skirk released getting close to Mavuika even with a bad 4th slot on her team. Neuvillette was broken, but did not mess up the entire game’s balance like Mavuika did.
>🐲 Neuvillette 🥶 on-field carry 👤40,000 HP 💪 250% Crit Damage 🤷♂️ Extra 36% CR from Marechaussee 💦 Unstoppable 🚫 Penetrates shields 🛡 Can self heal 🧱 Insane AOE 🐯 Braindead single target ☝spin to win 🕐 can solo abyss 🧙♂️ versatile teams and F2P friendly 👺… AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 🗣️🗣️🗣️ Hoyo tried to nerf him gives everyone 1600 primos 🤑🤑🤑
Yep, you know a character is broken when they have copypasta text.
Electronic-Salt-65932026-01-09 16:29
Agree
Grouchy_Gap452026-01-09 16:29
I mean no dps right now is mavuika (with her combos) level, not even with columbina, from early access available. I've seen nefer doing the same as mavuika without combos, and I think it's already fair
Melodic_Matter_95052026-01-09 16:48
Flins is 155k +-
Litterally Mavuika level on combos.
Mav is a bit better
IcySignificance53402026-01-09 16:29
Thank you for not saying hot take and then following it up with the most lukewarm take to ever exist like most people do. Also I fully agree. The reality is most people only hate powercreep when it's their fave being powercrept and love when their faves do the powercreeping. It's been insane seeing some people say "I hope x character powercreeps Mavuika it would be so funny" like no it would not??
kujah_0h2026-01-09 16:39
Neuvillete during beta testing was a tumor that could have been removed early, but then they left it out and Hoyo put out Mualani who did the old guard's rotation damage in one skill. Mavuika was the terminal cancer.
I still puled for her because I like bikes, but its still a guilty pleasure to clear abyss with her.
MaulGamer2026-01-09 16:53
Literally that last part. Im a Hu Tao main, day 1. She has been my best, my favourite, always used her. But I wanted my acc to be consistent with pyro; every pyro character, r1 of their sig, every pyro lvl90, all 4 stars C6, etc.
So obv I saved for mavuika, for a while too, I managed to get C3r1 and citlali too. IVE ONLY USED MAVUIKA SINCE. Not because I love her more, I find her design eh for style, she’s got alright playstyle, I find my team fun for her, but despite favouring Hu Tao more, I keep using mavuika because she clears content faster. Abyss, domains, exploration, heck, she is the only character that I can barely manage SO lvl 5 with, no other team can do that so I never completed it. Ever. She feels bad but “good” to use. Guilty pleasure dps absolutely.
lanawellman2026-01-09 16:57
Uhhh C2 Citlali instead of Mavu cons could make them both stronger though. I use hutao with C2 Citlali and she's like a different unit. Maybe not as strong as well-invedted Mavu, but she consistently gets the highest DMG in Abyss (700k).
kujah_0h2026-01-09 17:01
Back in Fontaine, the entire cast could still be used. Childe international, The premium Sukomon- Sumokon? Suma something, were still viable. Ganyu melt, Ayaka, even well built Dilucs could clear just fine, and those that couldn't could be wheelchaired with dendro. Dendro was the OG dendro savior.
The powercreep definitely was there, but the diversity of builds and team building back then was better because the compositions felt less forced. In the least, im glad Columbina's a great support because she can wheel chair Childe alongside Ineffa hopefully.
The HP inflation and over reliance on mechanics from limited characters today is just unbelievable. Bond of life stages back then could be brute forced, and so did some Dendro requiring stages, but the fuck you mean the Boss has two health bars unless you have lunar damage, and it would have been OKish if you only needed one character to trigger it, but nah. Screw you. You need two of THESE specific elements from THE Nod-Krai region.
And for God's sake, the next 4 star Nod Krai character they released out was anemo, a non participant of lunar reactions. In order to participate in the lunar benefits of having to deal with only one health bar AND them not being immune to your main element (for the horsey boss), you MUST get another Nod Krai character, which in this case, is a limited 5 star.
Guess who can brute force those mechanics? Only top tier DPS pyro chars with Citlali, or older chars with 6 patches worth of investment in cons and weapons.
Utterly outrageous.
OmniOnly2026-01-09 17:39
You can brute force it if you have burst damage pretty easily. people do not like alternate strategies. I used skirk burst during the down time. You have to know the mechanics.
throwway852352026-01-09 17:43
The first health bar of Lightkeeper always has to be drained normally, even with Ascendant Gleam. Ascendant Gleam only starts taking effect after Lightkeeper was drained once.
And nothing will ever be as bad as Golden Wolflord.
Ok_Tie_14282026-01-09 18:36
Childe International is unusable now:(?
Sylent0o2026-01-09 17:45
ok but like u went c3 and ur like " boo hoo only using her "
why did u go c3 ?
like what ?
its on u wtf
MorganTaoVT2026-01-09 16:52
I honestly don't really care much if my favorite are power crept as long as my favorite character is still viable for the content and looking at amber mains... most are.
VaioletteWestover2026-01-09 17:24
This just in, game players are selfish, short sighted and stupid, whenever devs listen to their incessant whining on balance and some qol. From Halo to call of duty to hsr to ffxiv, the game gets ruined
International_Meat882026-01-09 18:14
It’s a disappointing reality because I’d say I’m one of those people that would prefer ‘my’ characters to be balanced.
I like both Raiden and Mavuika a lot, but if not for the tendency of much of the playerbase unintentionally rooting for powercreep, I’d want them to be similar in power or overall roster utility.
Even in a game like Tekken, I *dont* want my character to be OP. In competitive games, your characters being OP chips away at the legitimacy of your skill and accomplishments.
oof-eef-thats-beef2026-01-09 16:30
Mavuika shouldnt be Mavuika level
Titanium702026-01-09 16:39
Mauvika is fine where she is, multiple times her power was central to the story and than she's also the Archon of the most DMG oriented Element. Her redrawing the line for DPS is expected and fine.
Any DPS after sitting comfortably below her would have been perfectly fine game design.
But ofc that's not what happened.
Now we're on track for the next Pyro Carry already being being better than Mauvika.
kujah_0h2026-01-09 16:43
Mavuika is not fine. Mavuika being the one to set the new record is expected because its pyro, but they overshot the damage on this one, and Mualani and Neuvilette are to be blame.
Xeidin2026-01-09 17:02
Imo, the problem is not Mavuika being #1 or hitting this ceiling, the problem is how easy it is to get her there.
She was sitting at the top with a 2 cost team and Nefer and Flins will only beat her with 4-/3- cost teams that are sustain-/healer-less.
Titanium702026-01-09 17:02
Yeah you could argue the issues started with Neuvi, not wrong.
His DMG isn't the problem, tho. It's the DMG combined with perfect AoE and immortality.
(Arle is quite busted as well, relative to her skill-floor completely OP)
* For Mauvi her base is perfectly fine.
* Her advanced Combos are OP, but I doubt a statistical relevant part of the community is using those to their full advantage. \*
* And her borderline Bug-Absue Combo which is truly gamebreaking levels of DMG doesn't even work on most devices. AFAIK.
\*Especially for her Melt I doubt a lot of people getting more DPS out of it than by just spinning.
I sure cannot. If I want to use her better ones I need to play Vape.
(That being said, I have C6 which makes things even harder as I have another Pyro source floating around.)
TaruTaru232026-01-09 16:58
>Archon with the most damaging element
Emo dude + Clanker maid team outdamages her and comfier lmaoo
Dangerous-War-65722026-01-09 16:58
"Mavuika is my fav character and I have lore to support me so I will delulu myself into thinking powercreep is justified here". It's not justified here, because there are stronger figures in Tevyat and then we can't use this excuse to validate everything
Treyspurlock2026-01-09 17:10
If Mavuika remained the exception instead of the standard then there really wouldn't have been an issue
Nod Krai fumbled ~~everything gameplay related~~ this by making their characters have 150k DPS teams with Columbina
A_Wild_Animal2026-01-09 17:05
If they want to make her feel like that, theres better ways than just raw main DPS damage. They tried that with Raiden, and she fell off insanely. Someone like Furina will age so much better because of her utility, while Mavuika just raises the DPS requirements and will just get replaced anyway.
HelloPeopleImDed2026-01-09 16:53
I don't like her playstyle so I will never get her i guess. Although I wish Stygian wasn't designed for Mavuika and Skirk button mashers
Reapzino2026-01-09 17:06
How does that second point work?
HelloPeopleImDed2026-01-09 17:25
hp inflations, pointless mechanics that add resistance that only leave a SHORT window to deal Huge damage in a millisecond etc. I'd suggest using f2p Ganyu team to clear one Dire boss and feel it yourself, but I wouldn't wish that experience on my worst enemy.
Reapzino2026-01-09 17:56
That makes sense but I'd say it's kind of a weird one because if you have their teams they're overtuned in their gameplay/damage (plus being pyro and cryo) that they define the content rather than Stygian being designed for them because it's mainly their burst damage thats sets them apart from other characters. If you took that away/redesigned their bursts then they'd be the same button mashers as the rest of the characters.
Due_Pirate_71232026-01-09 17:11
>I wish Stygian wasn't designed for Mavuika and Skirk button mashers
Lmao
plasma_soda2026-01-09 17:46
There was that event where it was basically a fuck you to non-Mavuika havers. Shit was so difficult, but then I was also piloting my friend's account that week, she has good Mavuika (nothing crazy) & pmo how it was a walk in the park that event was when you have her. Technically, it was doable without her, but the difference was night & day.
Ossuum2026-01-09 16:31
That feeling when you skipped Mavuika and have no idea what's all the hubbub is about XD
kujah_0h2026-01-09 16:31
Like, just clear the Abyss already bro. There's already Childe mains like me just happy to be on Ineffa/Durin/Mavuika life support.
Hell, there are still people who play Keqing, Tighnari, and Wanderer in the big 26. It doesnt matter being 5-10k DPS short thats still friggin amazing.
And if Columbina DOES bring the new characters to Mavuika level, keep the sticks up your asses, quit waving it at other people and telling them "told ya, mavuika top 1 is dead"
sain_inaban2026-01-09 16:34
Zibai
CharlesEverettDekker2026-01-09 16:35
I mean, the problem is not that people want their new dps to be mavuika's level, it is that hoyo make the content to be clearable only by mavuika level.
The ceiling is raised and it will keep raising.
Secret_Conclusion_932026-01-10 08:29
The ceiling is not important, the floor is.
Hoyo never balances around ceiling (perfect rotation, perfect combo, c6, best unit), but they did balance around floor.
fiersome082026-01-09 16:36
Everyone dislikes power creep until it’s their favorite
Commander4132026-01-09 16:49
I still dislike the fact that Skirk, who I like very much, deals Ganyu's whole damage rotation in a single normal attack
parrotandpeacock2026-01-09 17:00
That sounds exaggerated
I-LEWDED-MY-SISTER2026-01-09 17:12
It massively exaggerated, its only ~5 NA's in about 3 seconds.
dennisleonardo2026-01-09 18:42
Best non-wheelchair ganyu team is like 50-60k dps. Skirk is between 120-130k.
Skirk teams do ganyu team´s dpr in about half the time.
Creepy-Poet-60352026-01-09 20:08
If skirk gets escoffier then ganyu should too
dennisleonardo2026-01-09 22:57
Freeze ganyu hits like 80k max. 2/3 of skirk team dps.
Sylent0o2026-01-09 17:46
idk ganuy ca - 2 ish seconds is what 100k-150k ?
skirk in 2 autos doing that damge in half a second
Albireookami2026-01-09 17:54
I would have liked sirk, if she didn't need another character I think is absolutely stupid.
Tyberius1152026-01-09 16:38
But Neuvillette was fine I guess
majkoni2026-01-09 16:38
Neuvilette started it and it will never stop
Melodic_Matter_95052026-01-09 16:47
Release Neuvilette was on a Hu Tao level of damage.
pc_player_yt2026-01-09 16:54
I mean yeah because his best-in-slot support Furina wasn’t out yet at the time, but Mihoyo knew full well the level of power he’d be at once she releases. He was the original “DPS needing that one specific Support that turns them from mediocre to absolutely busted” character that we see now.
mlodydziad4202026-01-09 16:56
He needed Xiloen to start gapping Hu tao.
Melodic_Matter_95052026-01-09 17:00
Furina wasn’t an exclusive support for him only. She booster a decent amount of character
Yes he is by far the best Furina enabler.
But keep in mind what having her on a team litterally hard nerfs him unless you have C1. (Losing 3rd draconic stack is huge)
So, Furina was not an insane damage boost, he was likely just a little stronger than other DPS characters.
Mavuika. Again.
Was literally 30-60% percent better than ANYONE.
This is incomparable
Xignu2026-01-09 16:59
On an character who excel in AOE content, no?
hayahay26262026-01-09 16:38
It really does feel like a lot of people don't like powercreep then complain when their faves don't powercreep everyone haha
Bout_to_shower2026-01-09 18:14
I remember Skirk mains moaning about how she’s not that much better than Ayaka during her beta.
ankitjad2026-01-09 16:39
Pyro and Cryo = peak!, that's why lunar doesn't have Pyro or Cryo reaction..
They just wanted to save other elements until Cryo and Pyro gets elevated again in SNezhnaya!!
Some Mfs glazing the lunar shilling to it's fullest but Pyro and Cryo bcoz of their amplifying reaction multipliers don't need any adjusting buff like lunar reactions...
DeadMemeDatBoi2026-01-09 16:40
Actual blazing take: meta relevancy matters 3 times for 1-2 hours a month, its really not important.
Treyspurlock2026-01-09 17:13
Eh not entirely, how fast your character clears a domain or enemy can also affect how good they feel
There is also the community factor (though this one is self inflicted) where your main being "washed" means you practically get mocked if you bring up using them
DeadMemeDatBoi2026-01-09 17:18
Domains are also meta related, you could make a semi servable and totally fine build with little to no farming
Treyspurlock2026-01-09 17:20
Are you arguing you only fight any type of enemy 3 times for 1-2 hours a month?
EuraLapist2026-01-09 16:41
Then you have the Jahodas and Kachinas of Genshin.
erosugiru2026-01-09 17:34
Decent 4-Stars that can clear 2/3 endgames while being cheap and easy to build? Sure, make more of them.
Melodic_Matter_95052026-01-09 16:42
Yeah.
But I mean, having Mavuika alternatives is alright, as long as there’s a lot of them.
What is scary is outperforming Mavuika.
Snezhnaya potential 180k-200k teams are terrible for the older cast of the game
Stanme232026-01-09 16:42
No I think I’m fine building team mavuika and her ability to be a DPS / sub DPS makes me able to use her even in coop
sir_thrillho2026-01-09 16:43
I'll be honest, I really don't get why people don't just use the characters they like and enjoy playing? I have loads of characters I've not used because I don't like their styles and I just don't think it would be fun to be forcing myself to play them.
Arnorien16S2026-01-09 16:45
Hot take. Region archon equivalents being Mavuika tier after Mavuika released is acceptable. Going past Mavuika tier is the new problem in the post Mavuika world.
Ecchify2026-01-09 17:11
strong agree, i don't wanna play mavuika if she hits like a noddle like raiden. let the dps archon feel like a dps archon, but random ass characters don't need to be participating in the powercreep
Eastern-Yogurt89722026-01-09 17:34
I disagree. Every character costs the same amount of primos. It feels unfair if there was some artificial barrier for like 99% of the cast simply because they're not part of this super exclusive club.
Noah__Webster2026-01-09 19:31
The super exclusive club is probably going to exist. Some character is going to be the best. I think intentionally designing Archons, who are extremely lore relevant and have a lore reason to be the strongest, to be the strongest is better than a random character that you see in like two side quests being the best DPS in the game.
lanawellman2026-01-09 17:39
Then they shouldn't have made some random serfer as strong as a hydro sovereign, yet they did and they don't care. So we shouldn't be surprised when sooner or later some random Pyro girl turns out to be stronger than Mavu.
Drakengard2026-01-09 17:47
The problem is that they know as well as anyone that people won't pull for characters if they're weak. Releasing a hydro DPS that can't compete or beat Neuv won't sell well enough.
Which is why things are going to get worse, not better. I'm just glad I quit bothering with Floor 12 and anything above Gold tier on Stygian so I don't generally have to care.
Ecchify2026-01-09 18:15
i mean, i agree with you that mualani shouldn't be stronger than neuv
RobeguyII2026-01-09 17:12
People said the same thing when Nuevilette was released. In fact there were even some people hopeful that Fontaine's overall powercreep would be the new baseline and we'd go 3-4 regions before the next level of powercreep.
Then Natlan happened.
Arnorien16S2026-01-09 17:23
As noted in my comment going past the Mavuika tier would be a problem.
infojb22026-01-09 17:30
Neuvilette at least gets buffs pretty much every time a good sub DPS is released
JazzlikeOperation6602026-01-09 17:41
Fr every patch is another teammate for him, either to buff his personal dmg or team dmg. He is the most versaltile dps rn.
GlitterDoomsday2026-01-09 18:22
At this point he's the 5* Fischl, every new patch Hoyo will find a reason to buff them 😂😂😂
Beckymetal2026-01-09 17:38
*to be fair*
The power level of Mualani, Kinich, Chasca were all more-or-less in-line with what Arle and Neuvilette were able to do. Xilonen even retroactively buffed more pre-Natlan units than Natlan units.
It wasn't until Mavuika came that the ceiling opened - and even then, only *really* Meltvuika with Citlali was opening the ceiling significantly, and was relatively finicky to play. Many players were missing melts and not achieving the theoretical ceiling.
I think there's an argument to be made that Skirk/Escoffier is the real problem child.
Life_Cauliflower_3092026-01-09 17:40
an actual hot take, thats rare
MyDearMonarch2026-01-09 18:25
This actually made me think again on who the real culprit is to start this spiral.
YohAmida2026-01-09 19:02
I personally blame the beasts.
Puzzlehead_Lemon2026-01-09 19:23
I'm always down for blaming the Constipated Beasts for everything..
TwinAuras2026-01-09 19:39
Ah, yes.
*Mankind knew they could not change society, so instead of reflecting on themselves, they blamed the beasts.*
Bekwnn2026-01-09 19:39
Mankind knew that they cannot change society...
InfiniteKG2026-01-09 20:18
W reference ggs
Also_Steve2026-01-10 00:46
Sounds like you know the smell of the game
spicedmeshi2026-01-09 18:32
haters will disagree but I conveniently had skirks entire premium team when she came out so I pulled her... I wasn't expecting much since I don't really look at the meta, but yeah I agree with you.
the game has never been easier, if skirk can be played the content becomes piss easy
LiamStyler2026-01-09 22:10
I don’t even know what Skirk’s rotation is lol. I just switch to whoever has their ability ready betwee Furina, Escoffier, Shenhe, press all their buttons, then switch to Skirk and erase everything from existence lol.
awesomegamer9192026-01-10 01:24
Skirk can either do Mavuika level damage with sketchy, difficult to reliably do rotations, or she can sit comfortably between Mavuika and all the other carry characters by just whaling with N5 spam.
Express-Bag-39352026-01-10 05:59
And when Skirk is capable of freezing an enemy like a local legend, it just turns into easy mode. I remember when Skirk had a ridiculously easy time defeating Cocijo local legend in Stygian.
mikeru782026-01-09 19:20
An actual opinion in Live
makoblade2026-01-09 19:35
It's almost like the whole hyper-synergistic combo units are the real problem, not any individual one.
Skirk without ice coffee is only good at best, similarly to Mavuika without Citlali. Even Flins without Ineffa is only okay.
ShatteredSpace_0012026-01-09 21:10
It seems to be a product of Hoyo being unable to come up with more generalist kits + hyper-synergy increases sales and rerun sales of said units.
TheEdelBernal2026-01-10 00:59
It’s not that they are unable to, it’s people complain up a storm when a generalist support do better than (or equal to) a niche support in their niche, such as Kazuha vs Shenhe, Bennett vs Yun Jin etc
And to be fair, the people are right, what’s the point of pulling niche support when generalists are equal and so much more flexible?
rulerguy62026-01-09 20:12
Skirk and Escoffier is definitely the problem. I'd argue even more than Mavuika.
Yes Mavuika deals way more damage than is reasonable. But part of that is at least due to her interacting with game systems that are intended to do big damage (Vape/Melt). There's some skill expression and team design even if she's way overtuned.
Skrik and Escoffier are designed to push the worst reaction and the only way to do that was just... Completely ignore all design and precedent. Freeze isn't a damaging reaction so Skirk just deals a billion damage on her own. Escoffier shreds the enemy resistance to 0. And only if you arbitrarily restrict yourself to hydro/cryo meaning you can't even pretend to be unique by throwing in swirl or a good geo support unit.
It's overtuned powercreep that's also just boring design because it leaves no wiggle room for any expression.
Honest_Milk_82742026-01-09 20:24
Point is: Mavuika "base damage" is only 130k DPS. One can achieve 155k by doing animation cancels, which is something most people who are at C0 won't do anyways. Most people can't even properly do Melt reactions, and their effective DPS is around 100k DPS only.
One would argue that the most competitive players will do animation cancels, but the bar on whales is another level. Whale teams do over 580k DPS.
Back to normal humans. Skirk can do 125-130k by smashing your face on the keyboard. She enables a higher ceiling for casuals than Mavuika.
AzureDrag0n12026-01-09 22:05
For me Escoffier was the biggest jump in power I have experienced and I do not have Skirk. Just Ayaka premium team was more powerful than my Mavuika premium team. I just can't do Mavuika best combos effectively. Something always messes up. This results in my Ayaka team almost always doing better. I can do better combos than just basic spin to win and my Mavuika initial burst will hit for about 1 million. My Mavuika attacks will add up to about another million or so but this is not enough to match my premium Ayaka which does about 3 million damage per rotation.
People are focusing on Skirk too much where she could not be as powerful as she is without Escoffier. It is actually the super synergy teams that are breaking open the floodgates of powercreep.
Express-Bag-39352026-01-10 06:04
Yeah, arguably Skirk and Escoffier kinda just ignore game mechanics to do bajillion damage when Mavuika teams really had to capitalize on ICDs, elemental application, and use of core game mechanic of elemental reactions and particularly forward melt to do the insane high dps, meaning it takes relatively high effort for high reward far above what you see other carries do. Casual players will likely not perform those really high dps calcs.
lefboop2026-01-09 20:23
>The power level of Mualani, Kinich, Chasca were all more-or-less in-line with what Arle and Neuvilette were able to do.
Although this is true you're not taking into account the same argument you're using for Mavuika but for all those units.
The problem started because Neuvilette was able to deal that high amount of damage even when people didn't really know well what they were doing. The Natlan trio had very strict team requirements to reach that level of DPS, and it's also significantly more easier to mess up their rotations so most people weren't doing Neuvi level damage. Arle has her downside of being unable to be healed unless you burst, and if you burst it's a DPS loss so again, most people wouldn't really be reaching Neuvi DPS levels.
That's why I still think Neuvilette was the real initial problem child that really started this mess. He just raised the floor so much that Hoyo kinda just had to raise the ceiling and by raising the ceiling everyone got left behind. It's just a matter of seeing how much every character from Fontaine that released post Neuvilette except Arle and Furina have been completely left behind and you could say Furina is starting to struggle too, Arle has been saved so far mostly by newer supports.
With Mavuika's release they just didn't the same mistake with Varesa, Skirk and Ineffa of making them weak post powercreep like they did with most characters post Neuvilette. Like think how dead on arrival when it came to DPS someone like Wrio was.
Obviously the bad part is that they are just not stopping, like you pointed out they raised the floor again with Skirk. They probably stupidly thought that with her very strict team and build requirements it wouldn't be that bad but it absolutely is, she's brute forcing stuff she shouldn't be able to imo.
dubrea2026-01-09 20:26
I would agree. Mav was a universal great pull for every possible role but healer, then the chief being even more racist than natlan with even more restrictions was really bad. Then shirk came, who was basically useless without her team and I even then it's scuffed because they don't drop cryo units
jamieaka2026-01-09 23:34
Mualani blew past every other dps on release.
She was just balanced by not numbers but lack of players due to many players finding her hard to play. Mavuika didn’t improve her much outside of qol and more constellations scaling
JunWasHere2026-01-09 18:59
Rather than fixating on just numbers, I think theme is important.
Hydro is not known as the most offense-focused element, it is a flexible enabler as much as a damage source.
Did any of us expect Nahida to do t0 dps? No, but she's still useful.
Neuvilette may not be the strongest, but he persists in being fairly strong and one if the most adaptable and easy to play. No fancy combos, no animation cancels needed, no range issues, just slap on the latest synergistic support units accordingly and... *Firehose go brrrr*
Smokie_672026-01-09 17:31
A whole new approach to "It is mavuika's world, we're just living in it"
Grimsdol2026-01-09 18:54
playerbase should never try and justify bad game design like powercreep. because at the end of the day archons will still powercreep other units, and then the Enemies HP will inflate. and then you end up with a slippery slope of trying to find justifications for other characters to powercreep as well
DeathByDevastator2026-01-09 19:00
Thing is, The power should have capped with Neuv, or Neuv should have been weaker as to not create an ongoing powercreep chain that's not going to stop any time soon.
makoblade2026-01-09 19:48
Genshin is a Gatcha game on 5+ years. You're going to have power creep no matter how much you dream of avoiding it. The fact that most older characters (RIP Eula) are still reasonably viable is more than enough.
I'd love to see older characters hit the standard banner, allow focusing said banner and even reduce the rolls needed to guarantee, but that's just me wishing.
Sufficient-Habit6642026-01-09 21:45
Yeah, Genshin has actually been doing a good job at slowing powercreep when you compare it to most gacha games where you blink and your faves are already unc
errexx2026-01-09 16:46
Yup. idk how hot this take is, but imo 3.x was the best meta. The range from *making your shitty fave functional* teams to top-tier teams was—what, like 65k–85k DPS? and so with good team building, technique, and understanding of game mechanics, you could clear with “off-meta” units. Now those 65k teams are still at or around that number—vanilla Mavuika sits at 130k—and Mavuika with combos I don’t even fucking know, last I remember hearing was 160k?!
It’s been very sad to see old teams thrown into complete obsolescence nigh-overnight by a unit that deals literally twice the damage they could. Restricting player agency by reducing the room for creative team building and creative problem solving is not a good design choice.
**Powercreep is bad for the health of a game.**
errexx2026-01-09 16:58
To follow up on my own message and not have a giant block of text lol—
It seems to me with the projected Columbina team numbers that they intend for “Mavuika level” to be the new gold standard. I don’t think it’s a bad thing that they sort of level things off and allow other units to be almost or just as good as her because the way I see it, this is the best way forward after making such an irreversible mess. The damage has already been done, and if Genshin is as committed to maintaining game balance as it was for four years, it needs to find a way to absorb it.
I can sympathize with OP’s point that they should just keep new characters’ power at pre-Mavuika levels because if they aim for *around* her level, they’re liable to add even more to powercreep—but if they did what OP suggests, we’d still be in the era of the highly limited and uninteresting meta where she was always the only correct choice, 100% of the time. So I don’t mind the direction they’re going, but yeah, I am wary of it.
They really had a good thing going, and they broke it with Citlali + Mavuika. To be clear, I enjoy their kits, and the Mav combos are so cool, but their numbers were a mistake. I hope they continue to do what they did with Hexenzirkel buffs and find ways to elevate old characters.
Breaky_Online2026-01-10 01:51
Honestly, the numbers are the problem. Keep everything the same, but tone down Mav's own damage, and none of this would have happened.
TaruTaru232026-01-09 17:00
The moment my Childe international starts feels bricked the moment that the powercreep has taken to new level....and thats on 4.x started in 4.2ish with Neuvillette and Furina.
For the majority of 2.x and 3.x abyss i always spam international team because its the most versatile for just clearing at that time...then 4.x started with HP inflation on full force and that team was not it anymore, which led me realized something has changed.....and it didnt stop until today.
~~HSR aka the most powercreepish Hoyo gacha yet released in the same year as 4.x, coincidence?~~
chaelaff2026-01-09 17:59
Childe international is the most iconic genshin team to this day imo
Tarisaande2026-01-09 17:18
Ever since Natlan, starting with Kinich and Emilie, I see far less pure excitement for upcoming characters and instead so much more angst around "do I REALLY need character A for character B when I only like B?". On top of old favorites not being able to compete with a character that does double the damage out the gate, the new ones are coming in pairs. Powecreep AND team restrictions are a double whmy to fun and enjoyment for many.
HelloPeopleImDed2026-01-09 17:22
and what's worse is they are designing stygian surrounding this mavuika/skirk+escof powercreep that its just impossible for older units to even feel comfortable AT All. there's "challenging" vs "downright horrible to play".
errexx2026-01-09 17:37
> there’s “challenging” vs “downright horrible to play”
Exactly this. In the very first Stygian cycle, I saw my friends with Skirk and Escoffier clearing the Secret Source Automaton with ease. I went in with a Wriothesley team with plenty of consistent cryo app—and couldn’t even get a *quarter* of its HP down in the full 2min. Even tried Skirk without Escoffier (I didn’t pull her), and it wasn’t much better. That was the first time the full scope of powercreep (and shilling new characters through specific mechanics, lol) really hit me.
There’s a big difference between being sweaty with an all-4 star hyperbloom team and eventually coming out on top through hard work and good gameplay and hopelessly pummeling your poor outdated units into an enemy that has, to them, become an undefeatable behemoth.
HelloPeopleImDed2026-01-09 23:51
yep yep, oftentimes repeating Dire on my account becomes a waste of time
asilvertintedrose2026-01-09 17:29
3.x was the "use hyperbloom or you're fucked" meta iirc
kujah_0h2026-01-09 17:37
Nah, it was the "wheelchair any char you want meta and you only have to invest in the trigger".
errexx2026-01-09 17:46
I disagree—it was the era of “use any of a wide range of characters within the team archetype the enemy requires” and “if you don’t have those, hyperbloom is a low-cost, low-investment, high-damage-floor option that will clear very well anyways.”
Yes, of course the archetype required was often aggravate/spread/bloom/hyperbloom, but there were *so many ways* to build those teams that you were really not iced out of the meta at all unless you were a new account with a striking lack of four stars—and even that was quickly and easily rectified. Hyperbloom was *inclusive,* not exclusive, which is what made that era great imo.
Adham11532026-01-09 17:53
at least hyperbloom was accessible, i remember clearing the early 3.x abyss using xingqiu dmc kuki and fischl
basically hyperbloom meant that you at least had one free side and you could do whatever you want on the other
irllyshouldsleep2026-01-09 16:47
Yes. Too much powercreep and u get hsr.
MuscleMan4052026-01-09 16:48
Mavuika is my only c6 limited character. I took full advantage of their mistake lol
PhotoGeeker2026-01-09 16:48
Yeah but like, unless it’s MY favorite character.
OneHitSkill2026-01-09 16:49
What if we ask every character to be mavuika level? I feel like thats what everyone wants
That a Ganyu has the same potential as a Mavuika
That a Tartaglia has the same potential as a Mavuika
That everyone has the same potential and that the only thing that would matter is which character is most fun to you
As things stand, you cant really clear a lot of content with quite a few characters because the contents requirment just increased, Itto's mono geo team used to be strong and in my opinion that should be the case again, like what is Itto today? Literally garbage tier dmg, its like he doesnt even exist anymore in a lot of content because he simply fell off
If every character had the same potential of reachable dmg then things would be really cool
george1815252026-01-09 19:34
That sounds good in theory but power level is not static over years of new character releases. Mav won't be the top end DPS forever.
I don't even need Ganyu to be Mav-melt level. I spent literal years grinding her artifacts so she's 'top 1%' in both melt/freeze, getting Aqua R1, pulling Escoffier, etc. All this to prolong her shelf life in endgame content. It feels awful to have so much long term investment feel obsolete now, understandable as it is why it happens.
Do I still pull new meta-defining characters? Of course, I have the premium Mav-melt team and kinda/sorta learned the new combos. But I'd still like to go back to my old teams for fun/nostalgia. Liyue buffs when??
makoblade2026-01-09 20:02
Pretty sure half the issue is Geo fell off a cliff, sank to the bottom of the ocean and is currently drowning while simultaneously descending to the planet's molten core. Xilonen is just hanging out watching the rest of the crew suffer, because she can float.
BTB412026-01-09 20:16
Itto has been completely surpassed by C6 Noelle in the whacking enemies with a big Geo infused stick department. It used to be that a high Investment Noelle, while overall weaker than a lower investment Itto, could fill in a similar role and perform comfortably. That kind of reversed in Fontaine because Noelle accidentally has the perfect set of mechanics to take advantage of Furina’s fanfare. And even then, it feels like the Noelle carry team has just been left behind due to HP inflation and more restrictive mechanics being introduced. Geo centric teams just don’t have the raw damage to easily keep up I’m afraid.
Kbzz50502026-01-09 16:49
Just peoples dislike powercreep until its their character, its so funny to see the changing tone when that happen
Bout_to_shower2026-01-09 19:35
The victimization is always funny. “Hoyo hates tall females”. “Hoyo hates male characters”.
NLiLox2026-01-09 16:49
tbf if everyone was mavuika level there would be no mavuika level, itd just be the baseline, the game would be balanced around it and every character and team would be viable
of course thats in a perfect world where logic doesnt exist and nor does profits but ykno
Ryujin_Kurogami2026-01-09 16:51
The mistake was already fundamentally incorporated into the game's core system since day 1 when they gave melt and vaporize the ability to benefit from EVERY damage modifier in the game on top of having direct damage multiplier. All it needed was a dedicated amp reaction team and Mavuika with Mualani and/or Citlali is that end result when hoyo wanted to go for that juicy 2x bonus.
Every other archetype has to compensate somewhere, either having higher multipliers or just straight up shill, cuz they don't have that privilege.
throwway852352026-01-09 16:51
Neuvillette was the mistake and Mavuika was the correction. M*le characters should know their place.
Lemunite2026-01-09 16:52
meta discussion in Genshin is so fucking funny to me because you actually just gonna use all your meta knowledge for about 2 hours per month when you do Stygian Onslaught or the Abyss. People making it like your dps being powercreeped gonna make you homeless since you got kicked down the daily DPS ranking or something
thez0id2026-01-09 17:48
i mean, these are the same people that pull 5 star cons and weapon refinements that are literally only ever going to be relevant in those 2 hours per month, and then act like thats the be-all-end-all of this game
Sylent0o2026-01-09 18:22
thats happening in every competitive / online game
if ur gonna be hash for this u gotta be harsh for all gachas , league , warframe , fighting games etc :D
but u arent so ...
ur just a hypocrite
SecyaDenali2026-01-09 16:53
100% agree no character should be 30% and scale higher on release, have the best exploration, can do subdps and support all in the one go.
Don't know what the devs were smoking
Nuevillete looked broken but actually wasnt,
No one seems to talk about Fischl C6 soloing the otherside of floor 12 that to me was a greater thing.
horiami2026-01-09 16:54
I really don't get mfs who are jinxing it by saying mavuika won't get powercrept
This is a gacha, they can alway powercreep units
Rush1662026-01-09 16:54
Let's be honest here: demanding balance in a gacha game is pure utopia.
Hoyo doesn't balance the game based on the community's mood, and there will always be better characters than others.
Power Creep has been a part of the game since day one. Call it Raiden Shogun, Mavuika, Neuvilette, or Hyperbloom, or whatever you prefer, and the pace hasn't changed in five years.
In fact, it's the first time in a new region that the strongest character is from a previous one.
kokko6932026-01-09 16:56
What we want is big pp numbers and cute waifus / handsome husbandos
Amirite
TaruTaru232026-01-09 16:57
Who even powercreep her now? She still best pyro DPS
TheFlash12942026-01-09 16:59
Mavuika is one of my favourite characters and it is obvious to me that she shouldn't have been so strong. Mavuika should've been Arlechhino level with more support in her kit to distinguish her. Unfortunately, now we are in a position where everyone wants their new shiny DPS to be better than her which just worsens the situation.
Skirk was the perfect release imo. Didn't push the ceiling. Still more than strong enough.
I am not a fan of this new direction where every DPS has to push the ceiling higher. The worst part is that Mavuika needs a fair bit of mechanical skill with her combos to reach the completely absurd levels of DPS that Nefer, Flins and Zibai can get to casually.
Mavuika going from best to out of Top 3 at once is stupid. I will stand on this.
tur_tels2026-01-09 16:59
We need more of it actually, old and new DPSes should be Mavuika level, and so should enemies.
Buccaratiszipper2026-01-09 16:59
Can we nuke her outta game then?? 👉👈
WorozuTop42026-01-09 17:00
i don’t think they should POWERCREEP her by making her dps blatantly worse, but i think leaving her at the top by a significant margin exemplifies the issue, in an ideal world everyone would be relative in their best teams imo, like within 10-20k dps
Gray_Tower2026-01-09 17:00
Probably an even hotter take: I don't personally think Mavuika was a mistake because the game doesn't expect you to have her on standby to be able to clear. She's a clear outlier in terms of power and the game is not balanced around her levels of strength, so it just kinda doesn't matter. Sure, running Mavuika Melt will get you a clear almost no matter your skill level, but I think having one or two ridiculously busted DPS units won't kill the game.
Now, if *every* new character was on the same level as Mavuika or stronger, then yeah, that'd be a massive fucking problem lmao.
HuTaosTwinTails2026-01-09 17:04
PREACH
LesserTierArchon2026-01-09 17:04
I sure hope my favorite dps aren't mavuika level
imagine dainsleif or surtalogi or big man phanes doing a measly 5 million per hit in the big '27 or '28, that's just underwhelming
they already opened the floodgates, there's no going back now might as well crank up the insanity and see where it goes
114514 quadrillion damage celestial nails or else
BlackSwanTW2026-01-09 17:05
Genshin increased the damage cap after a certain character’s release
Case closed
HelloPeopleImDed2026-01-09 17:34
and screws over the rest and throws years of investment out the window
Sylent0o2026-01-09 18:24
the one they want YOU to get and then shaft everyone after its release :D
wikipedio962026-01-09 17:08
True, but I think they acknowledge that. We got lauma which revived bloom / durin which helped older pyro DPS and so on. I am hopping we get similar buffs to hex group with other characters as well
Icy-Childhood-45872026-01-09 17:14
Give source.
Yuiregin2026-01-09 17:15
Lol no. People don't want the characters to powercreep other characters. But people just want them to up to standard. And the standard is always the strongest character in the game. That's also why people mostly pulled void hunter in zzz. Playing other dps feels like shit when you already use the strongest character.
Mr_Ultracool2026-01-09 17:16
I genuinely don't get this take, lmao. Like - what, exactly, is so "healthy" about new characters being obsolete as soon as they come out already, since Mavuika - who no new character should be equal to or better than, as the argument goes - exists? Isn't declaring her as Genshin's peak (powerlevel-wise) and wanting anything new to be comparatively underwhelming just as bad? Like, why even bother pulling for or building any new characters when you know you'd have an easier time with an older unit unless they're your favorite for non-meta reasons? Why care for new stuff at all, atp, when you know it'll just be inferior to Mavuika? Wouldn't that basically make Genshin be a solved game, with the solution being to just use her since nobody should ever be stronger/as strong as her? Not trying to throw shade, genuinely confused here.
Kharate2026-01-09 17:17
Powercreeping is a necessary evil and this game does it incredibly well when you look at other gachas like HSR.
(They still need to buff eula though)
piterisonfire2026-01-09 17:18
Cold ass take, I want my favourite character to be Mavuika 2.0.
acart0052026-01-09 17:20
I think its fine to be Mauvika level. Otherwise people would just... never pull DPS.
Its passing the Pyro Archon that should have Hoyo be wary.
VaioletteWestover2026-01-09 17:21
Every player wants pure, HSR level power creep (but only when it's THEIR favourite character). This whole discussion is why devs NEED to just ignore players sometimes because players are always short sighted and aggressively selfish.
Hoyo is doing the correct thing by limiting powercreep within niches, adding constraints so it can exist without impacting the entire game. THIS KIND OF BALANCING DECISION IS WHY YOU PEOPLE CAN STILL PLAY ALMOST ANY CHARACTERS IN ANY CONTENT.
EnchantedLeo38782026-01-09 17:21
But i still want zibai to be top 2
Sad-Possibility-93772026-01-09 17:22
Hot take. There’s always going to be powercreep and frankly this level currently is fine. 10% isn’t that big of a deal.
Mavuika herself was the problem. She jumped it 40% overnight
Real-Contest49142026-01-09 17:26
Warmer take, there is no denying that whatever they did with mavuika would have been a problem.
Of she wasn't strong she would be memed on even more for being much weaker despite being newer.
If she was a suppoet, people would question why the war archon of all people wasn't a dps.
If she was average dps people would be disappointed she didn't stand out like archons are suppose to do.
Mavuika needed to be strong and the game tried to balance her by having her extremely powerful burst be tied to her nation's mechanic so you has to pay a price for her power.
ThatOstrichGuy2026-01-09 17:26
An actual hot take. I think some power creep is fine. Before I explain I don't think going from say 30k dps teams to 100k dps teams in 2 or 3 patches is okay. But if thats slowly ramped up over say a year, maybe 2? Then plateaus for a bit, I'm okay with that.
Part of a core gaming experience is progression. In most games that is story, and in combat games power level. You can do power level increase in a few ways, gear, new characters, or buffs to existing characters. One of the good things about Genshin is after a certain point gear actually isn't that impactful. A well built 10% Diluc isn't going to do that much less than a 1% Diluc. It's not nothing, but the difference isn't a vast gulf. This obviously only applies to the same artifacts.
Genshin really didn't do buffs for a long time. Until very recently obviously. So this leaves characters just being stronger. Part of what gets me excited about a character is their in game strength. A character can be super interesting story wise and looks wise, but if they are actively worse than what has come before I am less interested in pulling them. The personality and story of these characters largely is shown in the quests they are involved in. So if I just like them for that non combat things I can just enjoy them in the story. A significant part of my enjoyment of games is doing hard content. Better characters allow them to challenge me in new ways.
Just my 2 cents.
yyIntsuki2026-01-09 17:27
people really do be imagining "mavuika" on her absolute ceiling without taking account to how her actual ceiling combos are hard to perform even on pc, not even mentioning mobile
sure it's doable but anyone who even tried knows it's not that easy to do, plus just knowing the combo alone is not enough, because you also have to consider about the fact that the combo needs to take account to citlali's cryo application timing, you can substitute bennet for anemo/cryo options but usually they are not that easy to work with either
most people who play mavuika are far from her ceiling, which is really not big of a deal
it only becomes a problem if the new meta is designed around or easily breaking mavuika's ceiling
brliron2026-01-09 23:44
These people spend more time on social media than in the game. They don't compare teams by playing them themselves, they just see a damage number online without any context, take it as godspell, and spread it out everywhere.
SecyaDenali2026-01-09 17:31
The irony in all of this is that the majority of players dont do even do 3Cfd Mav let alone all the other stuff.
In reality if you just do Mavuika donuts with Bina/Ineffa she calcs ahead of melt
Particular_Web32152026-01-10 00:27
Most of the playerbase can barely melt 3 CAs, but are salty that a character that needs actual combos to do "double the dmg" meanwhile all skirk and neuvilette is just exist with supports. Flins, nefer and zibai are now reaching the latter
erosugiru2026-01-09 17:31
Some powercreep is okay here and there but Mavuika's jump was the first time they ever did something like that but it's somewhat warranted because they're the first ever true DPS Archon.
Nod-Krai DPS are slightly below Mavuika but with Columbina existing as the Archon level support, Flins, Nefer and Zibai are all hovering around Mavuika's level and are somewhat equal to each other.
Quite frankly, it's rather difficult to get mad at Mavuika as a DPS because she scales very well with combos and skill expression so her power feels earned while the other Nod-Krai DPS have dumbed down gameplay while doing similar amounts of damage in sheets.
aregus2026-01-09 17:38
I still remember all the delulu fans mocking Mavuika and saying she was a waste of primos. Oh boy, so many memories.
Astigmatisme2026-01-09 17:42
Powercreep should be banned for all character except my favourite one
OmniOnly2026-01-09 17:46
I don't really care about powercreep. Older characters have been usable a lot longer than people give credit for and if you love them so much you can make them stronger. Everyone is just going to the path of least resistance and complaining. Escoffier brings back ayaka but wait skirk is better. Every con, character or weapon can go into making your favorites stronger than an extra 5k here or there until they are so outclass because you neglected them. We still see mains obliterating content with old forgotten characters.
Puzzleheaded-Tart5582026-01-09 17:52
Nobody cried when they powercreeped Hutao with Arlecchino.
Competitive-Yam-10682026-01-09 18:11
Story says that Hoyo has never been able to balance things or archons. Even HSR is the proof of it.
>TL:DR. Mavuika dmg is not the main issue, is the greedy/predatory behavior behind current endgame/banners, adding more HP to every boss as they keep adding more DPS to newer characters which you need due to their kit/mechanics or region mechanics, making old 5stars characters almost usless and 4Stars DPS characters even worse (Eula is usless RN, a 5star on 4star level 💀, there are others like Cyno). Back then you were able to clear 36 stars abyss with 4stars characters even if were not the ones on the banner, don't know hoy many times I was able to clear abyss with Yanfei, if now I try to use her on abyss well... 💀
Long version:
When Venti came out it was the meta, the old abyss where he was able to solo by pulling every enemy into his ult, then they nerfed him so fucking bad that just until hexe came out he was not around.
When Zhongli came out, they changed his dmg and shield as he was the 'chinese' archon and chinese players were not happy about the first Zhongli ver, this is the same reason why they didn't release the Zhongli Archon Skin
When Raiden came out, everyone was 50/50, complains about her hypercarry dmg being locked behind her C2, and people happy about baalnational and support at C0.
National teams were meta for a long long time
When Nahida came out, there was a lot of hate/love from community. As she's was (basically still) the dendro core character and if you didn't have her you were not able to do anything with dendro teams.
Furina is one of the best supports on the game, once again, there was a lot of hate/love when she came out, mainly due to Neuvillette and other things.
>Finally Mavuika, community always joked about Bennet and Xiangling being the true pyro archons, but behind those jokes were a lot of things like the fear of an archon 'flop'.
If Mavuika as an archon, wasn't able to be better than Bennet and Xiangling or any pyro DPS, then players would have repeat what happened with Zhongli but even at a worse level, cuz it wouldn't be just chinese players complaining, it would have been the whole community as there was a lot of expectation.
>To me, the inflection point was Neuvillette and he soloing the abyss even at C0 without being an archon himself.
They didn't wanted to repeat what they did with Venti and nerf him, instead they decided to start increasing HP for every abyss on stupid amounts and adding bosses way harder to beat without the current banner character or mechanic.
If more HP is added every single fucking time on end game, then more DPS will be added with newer characters to increase the FOMO and revenue for them
No-Tonight31322026-01-09 19:07
Honestly everyone loves powercreep when their favorite is the one doing it .
Even now part of me is hoping that Zibai releases as the strongest DPS because I like her and I am going to pull her .
But it's so stupid nowadays because the moment lunar shill ends and new mechanic checks start "the raw dps " won't matter .
And even if she's the strongest against neutral content there is no telling how long that will last or how many neutral content we even get .
Ultimately it's just for bragging thaat my favorite is the " strongest/best " .
K6fan2026-01-09 19:07
Asking for your favorite DPS to be Mavuika level makes complete sense, if you're asking to be on par with her, not stronger than her. Otherwise you're just asking for Mavuika-suitable-content to be unaccessible for other characters on lower investment and that's borderline gatekeeping.
adolphiner2026-01-09 19:56
I remember people were trashing Genshin dev back in 3.x when every new characters are weaker than Hutao and Raiden. Now they grant their wishes on 4.x and people are still complaining about something they asking for.
SectorApprehensive582026-01-09 20:46
Tell that to the leaks sub whenever there is even a sliiight nerf (looking at all the the ppl hoping nefer was a rocket to the moon/sun, which she kinda still is)
Tamatu_OW2026-01-09 20:48
Dogwater take. If your new favorite DPS is weaker than a 1+ year old unit, what's the point? Remember Yoimiya when Hu Tao was already a thing? I do. It felt awful because you just get screwed in content, overshadowed by a unit that's already old. Keep the floor and ceiling the same but don't go below it because then new mains are also left in the dust.
PantheraAuroris2026-01-09 21:03
I feel the same thing about Skirk, before that Mav, before that Neuvillette, and before that Alhaitham. The power creep outliers shouldn't have happened.
I also think that Bennett shouldn't get a replacement, he should get a nerf to bring him in line. Same with the other busted 4\*s. Hoyo didn't know how to balance back then.
WildBrick1422026-01-09 21:31
Actual hot take: Mavuika is balanced. It's all the other characters that are too weak, because the real powercreep is in the enemies.
Even before Natlan the enemy powercreep got so obnoxious that even some Elite enemies had HP rivaling the early Weekly Bosses, and that's also ignoring the various resistances that would make the newer enemies even more unnecessarily tanky than they already are. It got even worse in Nod-Krai where a *Common* enemy (Cutting Edge All-Purpose Storm Landcruiser) has more HP than a Weekly Boss (Dvalin). At this rate in a few years we'll be fighting Lv90 Common enemies with Lv100+ Local Legend HP while still getting characters that aren't anywhere near as strong as Mavuika.
wyva2026-01-09 22:14
In my opinion, i think mavuika powercreep is fine. I just feel genshin combat system is not refined anymore(wtf is lunar crystalize), ratio between the elements is not 1:1. But man and its because of nerds complaining about putting more levels in abyss, now we got imaginarium theatre, stygian onslaught. Because of this, their business model have more reason to push players to spend money on gameplay, if you dont get this 'new' character your not gonna to clear those aforementioned content. You hear that? After all this new endgame content you realised the demand for increasing the abyss level, have stopped.
Agent_Fluttershy2026-01-09 22:23
Bottom picture would instantly kill a r/FatuiHQ member.
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Commentaires
As a result of his power-spike they had to have enemies spike in HP because of how many were using him, and more characters needed to be made with his damage numbers in mind because of the enemies jump in health.
You could even say Stygian Onslaught was a result of people just spamming Neuvillette in abyss for years. A boss focused endgame to counter the AOE monster.
Mavuika was worse because the mega powercreep was intentional for drip marketting
the big deal is that it made him slightly awkward to play when it comes to redirecting your beam in abyss. but that was nobody's real complaint.
Plus they are rhe best element in the game. Long lasting off field hydro app makes teams work. And Neuvillette stays relevant because he can drive all different types of teams.
Being an Itto upgrade is not saying much
That floor was and is a joke
Mavuika was worse because the mega powercreep was intentional for drip marketting even in her pre-release showcase
The amount of Pyro Abyss mages in the Abyss to shill for him (& Furina) kept cockblocking my Lyney Mono Pyro team, and this was just one patch after Lyney was released. Like bruh
Didn’t.
Even.
Raise.
The.
Dps.
Ceeling.
Yes, he was a very powerful release.
But that was because of comfort and versatility, HU TAO was technically out damaging him. (Esp on his release).
Now, Mavuika.
Well she was 30-60% than ANY character in the game IMIDIATELLY.
No, Nev and Mavuika are miles apart
Arlecchino could reach the DPS, but lacked any utility and lagged behind uptime.
He doesnt look as impressive now does he?
Princesszin been a GOAT since day one.
Yep, you know a character is broken when they have copypasta text.
Litterally Mavuika level on combos.
Mav is a bit better
I still puled for her because I like bikes, but its still a guilty pleasure to clear abyss with her.
So obv I saved for mavuika, for a while too, I managed to get C3r1 and citlali too. IVE ONLY USED MAVUIKA SINCE. Not because I love her more, I find her design eh for style, she’s got alright playstyle, I find my team fun for her, but despite favouring Hu Tao more, I keep using mavuika because she clears content faster. Abyss, domains, exploration, heck, she is the only character that I can barely manage SO lvl 5 with, no other team can do that so I never completed it. Ever. She feels bad but “good” to use. Guilty pleasure dps absolutely.
The powercreep definitely was there, but the diversity of builds and team building back then was better because the compositions felt less forced. In the least, im glad Columbina's a great support because she can wheel chair Childe alongside Ineffa hopefully.
The HP inflation and over reliance on mechanics from limited characters today is just unbelievable. Bond of life stages back then could be brute forced, and so did some Dendro requiring stages, but the fuck you mean the Boss has two health bars unless you have lunar damage, and it would have been OKish if you only needed one character to trigger it, but nah. Screw you. You need two of THESE specific elements from THE Nod-Krai region.
And for God's sake, the next 4 star Nod Krai character they released out was anemo, a non participant of lunar reactions. In order to participate in the lunar benefits of having to deal with only one health bar AND them not being immune to your main element (for the horsey boss), you MUST get another Nod Krai character, which in this case, is a limited 5 star.
Guess who can brute force those mechanics? Only top tier DPS pyro chars with Citlali, or older chars with 6 patches worth of investment in cons and weapons.
Utterly outrageous.
And nothing will ever be as bad as Golden Wolflord.
why did u go c3 ?
like what ?
its on u wtf
I like both Raiden and Mavuika a lot, but if not for the tendency of much of the playerbase unintentionally rooting for powercreep, I’d want them to be similar in power or overall roster utility.
Even in a game like Tekken, I *dont* want my character to be OP. In competitive games, your characters being OP chips away at the legitimacy of your skill and accomplishments.
Any DPS after sitting comfortably below her would have been perfectly fine game design.
But ofc that's not what happened.
Now we're on track for the next Pyro Carry already being being better than Mauvika.
She was sitting at the top with a 2 cost team and Nefer and Flins will only beat her with 4-/3- cost teams that are sustain-/healer-less.
His DMG isn't the problem, tho. It's the DMG combined with perfect AoE and immortality.
(Arle is quite busted as well, relative to her skill-floor completely OP)
* For Mauvi her base is perfectly fine.
* Her advanced Combos are OP, but I doubt a statistical relevant part of the community is using those to their full advantage. \*
* And her borderline Bug-Absue Combo which is truly gamebreaking levels of DMG doesn't even work on most devices. AFAIK.
\*Especially for her Melt I doubt a lot of people getting more DPS out of it than by just spinning.
I sure cannot. If I want to use her better ones I need to play Vape.
(That being said, I have C6 which makes things even harder as I have another Pyro source floating around.)
Emo dude + Clanker maid team outdamages her and comfier lmaoo
Nod Krai fumbled ~~everything gameplay related~~ this by making their characters have 150k DPS teams with Columbina
Lmao
Hell, there are still people who play Keqing, Tighnari, and Wanderer in the big 26. It doesnt matter being 5-10k DPS short thats still friggin amazing.
And if Columbina DOES bring the new characters to Mavuika level, keep the sticks up your asses, quit waving it at other people and telling them "told ya, mavuika top 1 is dead"
The ceiling is raised and it will keep raising.
Hoyo never balances around ceiling (perfect rotation, perfect combo, c6, best unit), but they did balance around floor.
Skirk teams do ganyu team´s dpr in about half the time.
skirk in 2 autos doing that damge in half a second
Yes he is by far the best Furina enabler.
But keep in mind what having her on a team litterally hard nerfs him unless you have C1. (Losing 3rd draconic stack is huge)
So, Furina was not an insane damage boost, he was likely just a little stronger than other DPS characters.
Mavuika. Again.
Was literally 30-60% percent better than ANYONE.
This is incomparable
They just wanted to save other elements until Cryo and Pyro gets elevated again in SNezhnaya!!
Some Mfs glazing the lunar shilling to it's fullest but Pyro and Cryo bcoz of their amplifying reaction multipliers don't need any adjusting buff like lunar reactions...
There is also the community factor (though this one is self inflicted) where your main being "washed" means you practically get mocked if you bring up using them
But I mean, having Mavuika alternatives is alright, as long as there’s a lot of them.
What is scary is outperforming Mavuika.
Snezhnaya potential 180k-200k teams are terrible for the older cast of the game
Which is why things are going to get worse, not better. I'm just glad I quit bothering with Floor 12 and anything above Gold tier on Stygian so I don't generally have to care.
Then Natlan happened.
The power level of Mualani, Kinich, Chasca were all more-or-less in-line with what Arle and Neuvilette were able to do. Xilonen even retroactively buffed more pre-Natlan units than Natlan units.
It wasn't until Mavuika came that the ceiling opened - and even then, only *really* Meltvuika with Citlali was opening the ceiling significantly, and was relatively finicky to play. Many players were missing melts and not achieving the theoretical ceiling.
I think there's an argument to be made that Skirk/Escoffier is the real problem child.
*Mankind knew they could not change society, so instead of reflecting on themselves, they blamed the beasts.*
the game has never been easier, if skirk can be played the content becomes piss easy
Skirk without ice coffee is only good at best, similarly to Mavuika without Citlali. Even Flins without Ineffa is only okay.
And to be fair, the people are right, what’s the point of pulling niche support when generalists are equal and so much more flexible?
Yes Mavuika deals way more damage than is reasonable. But part of that is at least due to her interacting with game systems that are intended to do big damage (Vape/Melt). There's some skill expression and team design even if she's way overtuned.
Skrik and Escoffier are designed to push the worst reaction and the only way to do that was just... Completely ignore all design and precedent. Freeze isn't a damaging reaction so Skirk just deals a billion damage on her own. Escoffier shreds the enemy resistance to 0. And only if you arbitrarily restrict yourself to hydro/cryo meaning you can't even pretend to be unique by throwing in swirl or a good geo support unit.
It's overtuned powercreep that's also just boring design because it leaves no wiggle room for any expression.
One would argue that the most competitive players will do animation cancels, but the bar on whales is another level. Whale teams do over 580k DPS.
Back to normal humans. Skirk can do 125-130k by smashing your face on the keyboard. She enables a higher ceiling for casuals than Mavuika.
People are focusing on Skirk too much where she could not be as powerful as she is without Escoffier. It is actually the super synergy teams that are breaking open the floodgates of powercreep.
Although this is true you're not taking into account the same argument you're using for Mavuika but for all those units.
The problem started because Neuvilette was able to deal that high amount of damage even when people didn't really know well what they were doing. The Natlan trio had very strict team requirements to reach that level of DPS, and it's also significantly more easier to mess up their rotations so most people weren't doing Neuvi level damage. Arle has her downside of being unable to be healed unless you burst, and if you burst it's a DPS loss so again, most people wouldn't really be reaching Neuvi DPS levels.
That's why I still think Neuvilette was the real initial problem child that really started this mess. He just raised the floor so much that Hoyo kinda just had to raise the ceiling and by raising the ceiling everyone got left behind. It's just a matter of seeing how much every character from Fontaine that released post Neuvilette except Arle and Furina have been completely left behind and you could say Furina is starting to struggle too, Arle has been saved so far mostly by newer supports.
With Mavuika's release they just didn't the same mistake with Varesa, Skirk and Ineffa of making them weak post powercreep like they did with most characters post Neuvilette. Like think how dead on arrival when it came to DPS someone like Wrio was.
Obviously the bad part is that they are just not stopping, like you pointed out they raised the floor again with Skirk. They probably stupidly thought that with her very strict team and build requirements it wouldn't be that bad but it absolutely is, she's brute forcing stuff she shouldn't be able to imo.
She was just balanced by not numbers but lack of players due to many players finding her hard to play. Mavuika didn’t improve her much outside of qol and more constellations scaling
Hydro is not known as the most offense-focused element, it is a flexible enabler as much as a damage source.
Did any of us expect Nahida to do t0 dps? No, but she's still useful.
Neuvilette may not be the strongest, but he persists in being fairly strong and one if the most adaptable and easy to play. No fancy combos, no animation cancels needed, no range issues, just slap on the latest synergistic support units accordingly and... *Firehose go brrrr*
I'd love to see older characters hit the standard banner, allow focusing said banner and even reduce the rolls needed to guarantee, but that's just me wishing.
It’s been very sad to see old teams thrown into complete obsolescence nigh-overnight by a unit that deals literally twice the damage they could. Restricting player agency by reducing the room for creative team building and creative problem solving is not a good design choice.
**Powercreep is bad for the health of a game.**
It seems to me with the projected Columbina team numbers that they intend for “Mavuika level” to be the new gold standard. I don’t think it’s a bad thing that they sort of level things off and allow other units to be almost or just as good as her because the way I see it, this is the best way forward after making such an irreversible mess. The damage has already been done, and if Genshin is as committed to maintaining game balance as it was for four years, it needs to find a way to absorb it.
I can sympathize with OP’s point that they should just keep new characters’ power at pre-Mavuika levels because if they aim for *around* her level, they’re liable to add even more to powercreep—but if they did what OP suggests, we’d still be in the era of the highly limited and uninteresting meta where she was always the only correct choice, 100% of the time. So I don’t mind the direction they’re going, but yeah, I am wary of it.
They really had a good thing going, and they broke it with Citlali + Mavuika. To be clear, I enjoy their kits, and the Mav combos are so cool, but their numbers were a mistake. I hope they continue to do what they did with Hexenzirkel buffs and find ways to elevate old characters.
For the majority of 2.x and 3.x abyss i always spam international team because its the most versatile for just clearing at that time...then 4.x started with HP inflation on full force and that team was not it anymore, which led me realized something has changed.....and it didnt stop until today.
~~HSR aka the most powercreepish Hoyo gacha yet released in the same year as 4.x, coincidence?~~
Exactly this. In the very first Stygian cycle, I saw my friends with Skirk and Escoffier clearing the Secret Source Automaton with ease. I went in with a Wriothesley team with plenty of consistent cryo app—and couldn’t even get a *quarter* of its HP down in the full 2min. Even tried Skirk without Escoffier (I didn’t pull her), and it wasn’t much better. That was the first time the full scope of powercreep (and shilling new characters through specific mechanics, lol) really hit me.
There’s a big difference between being sweaty with an all-4 star hyperbloom team and eventually coming out on top through hard work and good gameplay and hopelessly pummeling your poor outdated units into an enemy that has, to them, become an undefeatable behemoth.
Yes, of course the archetype required was often aggravate/spread/bloom/hyperbloom, but there were *so many ways* to build those teams that you were really not iced out of the meta at all unless you were a new account with a striking lack of four stars—and even that was quickly and easily rectified. Hyperbloom was *inclusive,* not exclusive, which is what made that era great imo.
basically hyperbloom meant that you at least had one free side and you could do whatever you want on the other
That a Ganyu has the same potential as a Mavuika
That a Tartaglia has the same potential as a Mavuika
That everyone has the same potential and that the only thing that would matter is which character is most fun to you
As things stand, you cant really clear a lot of content with quite a few characters because the contents requirment just increased, Itto's mono geo team used to be strong and in my opinion that should be the case again, like what is Itto today? Literally garbage tier dmg, its like he doesnt even exist anymore in a lot of content because he simply fell off
If every character had the same potential of reachable dmg then things would be really cool
I don't even need Ganyu to be Mav-melt level. I spent literal years grinding her artifacts so she's 'top 1%' in both melt/freeze, getting Aqua R1, pulling Escoffier, etc. All this to prolong her shelf life in endgame content. It feels awful to have so much long term investment feel obsolete now, understandable as it is why it happens.
Do I still pull new meta-defining characters? Of course, I have the premium Mav-melt team and kinda/sorta learned the new combos. But I'd still like to go back to my old teams for fun/nostalgia. Liyue buffs when??
of course thats in a perfect world where logic doesnt exist and nor does profits but ykno
Every other archetype has to compensate somewhere, either having higher multipliers or just straight up shill, cuz they don't have that privilege.
if ur gonna be hash for this u gotta be harsh for all gachas , league , warframe , fighting games etc :D
but u arent so ...
ur just a hypocrite
Don't know what the devs were smoking
Nuevillete looked broken but actually wasnt,
No one seems to talk about Fischl C6 soloing the otherside of floor 12 that to me was a greater thing.
This is a gacha, they can alway powercreep units
Hoyo doesn't balance the game based on the community's mood, and there will always be better characters than others.
Power Creep has been a part of the game since day one. Call it Raiden Shogun, Mavuika, Neuvilette, or Hyperbloom, or whatever you prefer, and the pace hasn't changed in five years.
In fact, it's the first time in a new region that the strongest character is from a previous one.
Amirite
Skirk was the perfect release imo. Didn't push the ceiling. Still more than strong enough.
I am not a fan of this new direction where every DPS has to push the ceiling higher. The worst part is that Mavuika needs a fair bit of mechanical skill with her combos to reach the completely absurd levels of DPS that Nefer, Flins and Zibai can get to casually.
Mavuika going from best to out of Top 3 at once is stupid. I will stand on this.
Now, if *every* new character was on the same level as Mavuika or stronger, then yeah, that'd be a massive fucking problem lmao.
imagine dainsleif or surtalogi or big man phanes doing a measly 5 million per hit in the big '27 or '28, that's just underwhelming
they already opened the floodgates, there's no going back now might as well crank up the insanity and see where it goes
114514 quadrillion damage celestial nails or else
Case closed
(They still need to buff eula though)
Its passing the Pyro Archon that should have Hoyo be wary.
Hoyo is doing the correct thing by limiting powercreep within niches, adding constraints so it can exist without impacting the entire game. THIS KIND OF BALANCING DECISION IS WHY YOU PEOPLE CAN STILL PLAY ALMOST ANY CHARACTERS IN ANY CONTENT.
Mavuika herself was the problem. She jumped it 40% overnight
Of she wasn't strong she would be memed on even more for being much weaker despite being newer.
If she was a suppoet, people would question why the war archon of all people wasn't a dps.
If she was average dps people would be disappointed she didn't stand out like archons are suppose to do.
Mavuika needed to be strong and the game tried to balance her by having her extremely powerful burst be tied to her nation's mechanic so you has to pay a price for her power.
Part of a core gaming experience is progression. In most games that is story, and in combat games power level. You can do power level increase in a few ways, gear, new characters, or buffs to existing characters. One of the good things about Genshin is after a certain point gear actually isn't that impactful. A well built 10% Diluc isn't going to do that much less than a 1% Diluc. It's not nothing, but the difference isn't a vast gulf. This obviously only applies to the same artifacts.
Genshin really didn't do buffs for a long time. Until very recently obviously. So this leaves characters just being stronger. Part of what gets me excited about a character is their in game strength. A character can be super interesting story wise and looks wise, but if they are actively worse than what has come before I am less interested in pulling them. The personality and story of these characters largely is shown in the quests they are involved in. So if I just like them for that non combat things I can just enjoy them in the story. A significant part of my enjoyment of games is doing hard content. Better characters allow them to challenge me in new ways.
Just my 2 cents.
sure it's doable but anyone who even tried knows it's not that easy to do, plus just knowing the combo alone is not enough, because you also have to consider about the fact that the combo needs to take account to citlali's cryo application timing, you can substitute bennet for anemo/cryo options but usually they are not that easy to work with either
most people who play mavuika are far from her ceiling, which is really not big of a deal
it only becomes a problem if the new meta is designed around or easily breaking mavuika's ceiling
In reality if you just do Mavuika donuts with Bina/Ineffa she calcs ahead of melt
Nod-Krai DPS are slightly below Mavuika but with Columbina existing as the Archon level support, Flins, Nefer and Zibai are all hovering around Mavuika's level and are somewhat equal to each other.
Quite frankly, it's rather difficult to get mad at Mavuika as a DPS because she scales very well with combos and skill expression so her power feels earned while the other Nod-Krai DPS have dumbed down gameplay while doing similar amounts of damage in sheets.
>TL:DR. Mavuika dmg is not the main issue, is the greedy/predatory behavior behind current endgame/banners, adding more HP to every boss as they keep adding more DPS to newer characters which you need due to their kit/mechanics or region mechanics, making old 5stars characters almost usless and 4Stars DPS characters even worse (Eula is usless RN, a 5star on 4star level 💀, there are others like Cyno). Back then you were able to clear 36 stars abyss with 4stars characters even if were not the ones on the banner, don't know hoy many times I was able to clear abyss with Yanfei, if now I try to use her on abyss well... 💀
Long version:
When Venti came out it was the meta, the old abyss where he was able to solo by pulling every enemy into his ult, then they nerfed him so fucking bad that just until hexe came out he was not around.
When Zhongli came out, they changed his dmg and shield as he was the 'chinese' archon and chinese players were not happy about the first Zhongli ver, this is the same reason why they didn't release the Zhongli Archon Skin
When Raiden came out, everyone was 50/50, complains about her hypercarry dmg being locked behind her C2, and people happy about baalnational and support at C0.
National teams were meta for a long long time
When Nahida came out, there was a lot of hate/love from community. As she's was (basically still) the dendro core character and if you didn't have her you were not able to do anything with dendro teams.
Furina is one of the best supports on the game, once again, there was a lot of hate/love when she came out, mainly due to Neuvillette and other things.
>Finally Mavuika, community always joked about Bennet and Xiangling being the true pyro archons, but behind those jokes were a lot of things like the fear of an archon 'flop'.
If Mavuika as an archon, wasn't able to be better than Bennet and Xiangling or any pyro DPS, then players would have repeat what happened with Zhongli but even at a worse level, cuz it wouldn't be just chinese players complaining, it would have been the whole community as there was a lot of expectation.
>To me, the inflection point was Neuvillette and he soloing the abyss even at C0 without being an archon himself.
They didn't wanted to repeat what they did with Venti and nerf him, instead they decided to start increasing HP for every abyss on stupid amounts and adding bosses way harder to beat without the current banner character or mechanic.
If more HP is added every single fucking time on end game, then more DPS will be added with newer characters to increase the FOMO and revenue for them
Even now part of me is hoping that Zibai releases as the strongest DPS because I like her and I am going to pull her .
But it's so stupid nowadays because the moment lunar shill ends and new mechanic checks start "the raw dps " won't matter .
And even if she's the strongest against neutral content there is no telling how long that will last or how many neutral content we even get .
Ultimately it's just for bragging thaat my favorite is the " strongest/best " .
I also think that Bennett shouldn't get a replacement, he should get a nerf to bring him in line. Same with the other busted 4\*s. Hoyo didn't know how to balance back then.
Even before Natlan the enemy powercreep got so obnoxious that even some Elite enemies had HP rivaling the early Weekly Bosses, and that's also ignoring the various resistances that would make the newer enemies even more unnecessarily tanky than they already are. It got even worse in Nod-Krai where a *Common* enemy (Cutting Edge All-Purpose Storm Landcruiser) has more HP than a Weekly Boss (Dvalin). At this rate in a few years we'll be fighting Lv90 Common enemies with Lv100+ Local Legend HP while still getting characters that aren't anywhere near as strong as Mavuika.
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