I still don’t get how having a competent archon instantly = bad characterisation

Out of everyone in teyvat being a complete mess emotionally and pretty much every other way, why is mavuika so bad for not being??

I don’t get why people want the same character trope redone and reused for every single character.

Why can’t mavuika just be cool and good at her job does she rlly need to be Emo

She’s literally the only char to ever break the boring depressed waifu hoyo archetype that they use in every single game and everyone HATESS her for some unexplainable “bad characterisation” even though it’s just that she’s the only mentally stable individual in teyvat

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Commentaires

ninja_sensei_2026-01-12 12:57

I personally didn't have a problem with her being competent. I had a problem with her having an Akira bike.

youarenotthatguybruh2026-01-12 13:02

But let’s be honest , that is the single most badass thing ever

Either you find it fitting or not

Shit can fly , run on water and climb

Durin mains would kill to have only 1/3 of that

She is built peak

ninja_sensei_2026-01-12 13:13

Never said it wasn't badass. Just world breaking.

youarenotthatguybruh2026-01-12 13:15

Ehhh , to me the “world breaking” happened with scara and his Gundam

At that point if it is cool and explained in a reasonable way , it’s fine by me

This is a game that needs to keep your interest, if the things start to appear in repetitive manner , the interest start to go away

ninja_sensei_2026-01-12 13:21

I didn't have a problem with the gundam. It made sense with the lore.

I don't even have a problem with her having a bike. That's fine.

I have a problem with it being an *Akira* bike. Doesn't fit the world or the design of Natlan.

youarenotthatguybruh2026-01-12 13:24

It has a dragon head when you sprint , wings when you fly and a dragon body. I things aesthetically it fits Natlan theme and it really doesnt look to me like any bike I have ever seen

You literally can’t make a bike look more different than that , the only thing that makes it “different” from an automathon , is the color red , but thats the pyro archon , you can’t make a bike look brown or gray , it has to be red

ninja_sensei_2026-01-12 13:25

Yeah I'm gonna hard disagree with you here.

TheEdelBernal2026-01-12 13:24

So if it’s colored more like the white and gold dragon tech found scattered around Natlan it would be fine?

Come to think of it, probably, ya. And we can get chroma pack to dye the bike to different colour.

ninja_sensei_2026-01-12 13:26

More Natlan looking? Yeah that would've been much much better.

Zonlul-simp692026-01-12 13:27

lmao ok with god gundam but not a bike. And the bike does fit Natlan

ninja_sensei_2026-01-12 13:28

That's the thing about opinions. People agree with mine though.

Zonlul-simp692026-01-12 13:40

Sure nice to live in an echo chamber of negetivity!

ninja_sensei_2026-01-12 13:41

Ah yes, I can love the game and almost everything about it, but if I have a single criticism, it's echo chamber of negativity, lol.

Zonlul-simp692026-01-12 13:44

Sure, cuz the way you talk about their opinion like it wrong and it rub ppl the wrong way. lmao.

You are so dead pan about the bike being shit but gundam is ok lmao

Particular_Sell_82562026-01-12 13:50

If I found an alien spacecraft from a super advanced civilization that existed thousands of years ago, the alien spacecraft isnt going to fit the design of my brick house

If I modify and reverse engineer the alien spacecraft into a scooter with current technology a dozen times, its neither going to look like the original spacecraft it was, nor my brick house

This specific complaint is idiotic. It would make less sense if super advanced phlogiston dragon tech looked like tribal aesthetics. And even less if after dozens of modifications the end result would look like either.

Take for example Black Panther 2 with Riri’s Wakandan armor. It’s not going to look like Tony Stark’s iron man 1 suit because the technology is twice as advanced, and it’s not going to fit the Wakandan aesthetic since it’s been modified to Riri’s tastes

ninja_sensei_2026-01-12 13:58

You're right. Akira is clearly the design choice that Xilonen has been making so far. Look at Kachina's twisty twirly, look at her roller blades, look at her turn tables. Yup those designs all scream Akira.

Martin1d312026-01-12 13:06

I get it. The bbike was justt too much.

Main-Shot2026-01-12 13:11

I still hate that bike to this day

Fabulous_Ground_19832026-01-13 08:00

Nah its peak, the bike is awesome

erosugiru2026-01-12 13:23

The biker concept was camppp but the bike itself was ugly as sin, it completely bogged down her vibe.

little_jiggles2026-01-12 14:08

The bike was ok. It was not ok that spamming donuts was the way to deal max dmg.

SaltyPotato3402026-01-12 14:12

If this is still what you think after all this time, you have no idea how to play her.

erosugiru2026-01-12 14:13

This hasn't been true in a hot minute, the best way to deal max damage is to learn her CCDCDF combo. Spamming donuts isn't even good on her

little_jiggles2026-01-12 14:35

Oh lol. Haven't followed recent meta sorry.

4GRJ2026-01-12 14:53

Or honestly, whatever NA/CA/dash cancel combo do you see fancy

Will be always better than spamming donuts

erosugiru2026-01-12 14:54

Tea, Mavuika is like skill expression THE character and there's always something for everyone

Ravemst2026-01-12 13:32

Dude there were giant robots during the cataclysm some of which were controlled like gundams some of which are still around but her having a bike makes no sense. Not to mention the advanced technology that the dragons had but no her having a bike is way too out there.

ninja_sensei_2026-01-12 13:33

You're missing the point. It wasn't the thing that was the problem, it was the *design*

Zonlul-simp692026-01-12 13:42

Gundam design does not fit Teyvat tho.

ninja_sensei_2026-01-12 13:47

Akademiya made. It made enough sense to me. But you're entitled to your opinion too.

Main-Shot2026-01-12 14:04

Imagine if Star Wars had a Bugatti, I mean they have X-wings and Star destroyers surely a sports car isn’t out of the question for them.

Potential_Swimmer5402026-01-12 13:32

Fr, I don't even care about the story, I either skip everything or don't do it at all. Her design is what makes me hate her. Everything from the stupid outfit to the bike.

youarenotthatguybruh2026-01-12 12:58

Because tears on screen are proof of good writing/s

I totally agree with you , they just want to repeat the same thing over and over and over again. And then they complain about Paimon repeating the same thing, lmao

“Its not good written because I need to read”

zriL-2026-01-12 13:04

The issue isn't that she's competent. The issue is that's her only characterization, and she isn't even doing it in a unique way, plus the fact that being competent is a very common characterization to begin with.

No_Cap76782026-01-12 14:09

The issue is that it's her only characterisation AND there is no other proposition from no one else, so it's portraying her as the one who is right. The only one who proposed something else was Capitano, and you could feel they explored his point of view just to do it and move on. Even as a Fatui opponent it was all about going in Mavuika direction. There is no depth in what happened in Natlan.

Particular_Sell_82562026-01-12 13:06

The irony is that if Mavuika was a tall male 90% of the complaints and whining never would've existed

Personally, after the previous 2 archons before her leaned more heavily into sad backstory she's a breath of fresh air. Did she have a sad and tragic backstory? Yes, but it didn't completely overtake her character as much as Furina and Nahida's did. Nothing against the 2 of them, they're some of my favorite characters in the game, but my main complaint is that the community is more receptive towards characters and if they had sad backstories. My biggest peeve with Furina was that she was essentially infantilized and babied by the community when in reality she is perfectly capable and intelligent compared to how flanderized she's become overall. Did she go through something awful, yes, but the sad backstory shouldnt completely define her especially when she's shown to be competent in her own right.

My main issue with most Genshin characters is that more often than not, they've essentially become "sad backstory = sell well". Not every character needs to have a tragic backstory, and if they do, it shouldn't become the focus of their entire character. Mavuika is a perfect example of such, and why she's among some of my favorite characters alongside Furina Nahida and Zhongli.

zriL-2026-01-12 13:26

I don't know what game you're playing. What's in genshin doesn't seem to back any of your claims.

Give me a tall male with a similar characterization and who's popular.

And there are plenty of popular characters that don't have a particularly sad back story, like hutao for example.

Particular_Sell_82562026-01-12 13:37

Neuvillette, Zhongli, Kazuha, Flins, and Alhaitham

Mavuika in the Natlan archon quest essentially served the same role as Neuvillette in Fontaine's. Whenever a calamity or major conflict happens both are there to serve as the safety net. Parallels such as Childe's outburst/Kachina's rescue in Act 2, The night warden wars/Meropide primordial sea breach in act 4, final battle against Gosoythoth/Narwhal in act 5, and when the nation's price has to be paid, someone else pays for it in Capitano/Focalors which resolves the primary conflict.

Kazuha had a narrative moment where he activated a dead vision and parried an island splitter attack from Raiden. If you swap the 2 character's genders and had a female vision user parry a world splitter attack from a male archon I can guarantee you it would've drawn 5 times the amount of ire from the community.

zriL-2026-01-12 13:38

it's not about role, it's about character.

Particular_Sell_82562026-01-12 13:46

Mavuika has gotten more characterization than Neuvillette has. The main issue is that Mavuika's arc is less obvious because its more of a show and not tell and you have to delve deeper into it since the archon quest focuses less on her struggles. The only time its outright stated to the audience was one time in her story quest by Xbalanque, and even then somehow people have the wrong takeaway from it just because there was an on screen sparring fight.

Neuvillette's is literally stated outright by Navia, Wriothesley, Furina, and even himself to the audience in Act 2 and his story quest, leaving less room for misunderstanding and confusion.

zriL-2026-01-12 13:51

What if I tell you the interesting part about Neuvillette is the less obvious part that you apparently didn't see ?

Particular_Sell_82562026-01-12 13:57

I’m not denying that Neuvillette doesn’t have more interesting parts that are underlining his characterization

My point is that Mavuika is characterized very similar to how most of the male characters in the game are along with the fact that her arc is more show and not tell

Costyn172026-01-12 14:01

>parried an island splitter attack from Raiden.

Not the island splitter. Raiden wasn't going to just obliterate her own city and kill almost everyone there.

Particular_Sell_82562026-01-12 14:03

Fair point, but my argument still stands

Imagine if Navia blocked a beam from Neuvillette and knocked him off balance. The shit storm that would cause in the community would be immaculate.

Costyn172026-01-12 14:16

Yeah, not disagreeing with the rest, just pointing that out.

Bout_to_shower2026-01-12 13:26

Male characters always seem to escape any kind of mass criticism or slander in hoyo communities for some reason. If Neuvillete was a woman i’m sure the same Mary sue complaints would be made about him too.

In any case, I’m just glad Mavuika is at least different from all the other archons thus far. Would be incredibly annoying if she’s another damsel in distress for us to save.

Vegetto_ssj2026-01-12 18:09

>. If Neuvillete was a woman i’m sure the same Mary sue complaints would be made about him too.

No, he is by far from a Mary/Gary Sue/Stu. Be an "ignorant" in human emotion/life already compromises a "Gary stu" status; and his Navia/Navia's dad thing already stain his figure. Someone labeled him as a big kid because except his work and justice, he doesn't know so much.

And Kazuha was already labeled as Gary Stu, and "boring", after the hype for him went away. And tbh, we don't have so many playable males bosses, and most of them have some flaw that make them liked or more interesting. And this is the true complain against Mavuika. Not the damsel in distress thing; ppl loved strong women characters like Beidou, Ninng, Yelan, Nefer...

erosugiru2026-01-12 13:27

You might be right, she does have aspects to her that remind me more of they write male characters (which does have its own set of flaws don't get me wrong). I think Genshin does try to spice up their writing per gender but they've done the overtly emotional female character needing support too much that the absence of this trope leaves most players thinking that her character is incomplete.

spagheddieballs2026-01-12 13:31

>The irony is that if Mavuika was a tall male 90% of the complaints and whining never would've existed

I've always felt that Mavuika was female Zhong Li.

Particular_Sell_82562026-01-12 13:39

She was his perfect foil, as all the archons are to each other

Both are tall model characters who believe in the capabilities of humanity while also being the object of worship from their people as all powerful all knowing rulers, however one stands aside and lets them handle conflict themselves while the other stands with them and guides them through conflict.

spagheddieballs2026-01-12 14:07

Even at a superficial level all the similarities are there. War veterans, lost a bunch of friends, good at /knowledgeable about most things. Quirky sidekicks they lean on for money or technological assistance. They also maintain a distance and aloofness so they're not true husband waifu bait, other characters like xiao citlali fulfill the bait roles instead.

Spieds2026-01-12 15:16

God, the point about Furina is so true. I remember (and still see TBH) when people blew up at her SQ cuz literally everyone didn't serve her and dared to not be always kind.
Like, so many people took genuine offence to Traveler grabbing her hand to lead her out of hiding at the start, you would think traveler was kicking her or something. It genuinely made me question if people WANT her to remain traumatized by that experience forever

Vegetto_ssj2026-01-12 18:15

While I completely agree with the backstory part (in fact last year I open this argument after an year where Furina and Aventurine (a male HSR character) passed from the most hated to the MVP of their Main story, mainly because their backstories)), I don't agree with the gender thing, because her problem isn't being a strong and competent lady, but because she doesn't have flaws or personal struggles, and in the case she has, are badly shown.
She is competent but more boring than other characters

TaiAnej2026-01-12 13:09

Mavuika apologizers try not to argue with a strawman challenge: impossible

youarenotthatguybruh2026-01-12 13:12

No one needs to apologize about anything, she is the first archon that feels like it , either it being in presence and duty

All the other are , “well we used to be “ bullshit I had enough of “could have , can be , but never is”

TaiAnej2026-01-12 13:24

Just proving my point. Who here is arguing that being competent is bad, exactly? No one, last I checked. The problem is that there's nothing else to her character other than being perfect and super powerful. She never faces any consequences and has no depth to her character. That's what makes her boring. She's a one-dimensional mary sue.

youarenotthatguybruh2026-01-12 13:26

Her friends and family died , she had to leave her all life behind, her people died in battle , what fucking consequences do you want more , her losing an arm????

TaiAnej2026-01-12 13:29

And what kind of impact did that have on her? Did she undergo any character development or change in any way at all?

youarenotthatguybruh2026-01-12 13:32

Yes , she had to leave her emotions and lose her self to be a weapon for the better good, she was ready to kill herself and her answer was “ it isnt important”

Honestly you can say whatever but not acknowledging things that literally happened in the story , it’s being disingenuous

You all are asking for things that have been served but you all put a blindfold over your face and make it seems like it isnt there

TaiAnej2026-01-12 13:52

But she didn't, did she? No, she just went on to party and miss out on any consequences because of a deus ex machina :)

None of it had an impact on her character in any way whatsoever.

youarenotthatguybruh2026-01-12 13:53

Bruh , yeah whatever makes you happy

Vegetto_ssj2026-01-12 18:27

Exactly this.

kemirgen172026-01-12 18:50

Says the Arrlecchino gooner

TaiAnej2026-01-12 18:52

Arle has like the least goonable female design in the game so I don't know what you're talking about

FischlInsultsMePls2026-01-12 13:13

Well not bad characterization just not as interesting

Aegillade2026-01-12 13:15

We're never gonna move on from this godforsaken topic, are we?

Ricksaw262026-01-12 13:47

Of course we are. Wait for the tsaritsa to release and not fulfill people's own headcannons. Columbina is already doing this, soon you will see how everyone is going to stop talking about mavuika.

kokko6932026-01-12 14:02

I mean, we stopped about Raiden, so yeah, 1 more year and it's forgotten

kokko6932026-01-12 14:05

I mean, we stopped about Raiden, so yeah, 1 more year and it's forgotten

Neospanner2026-01-12 15:12

My God - Tsaritsa is going to have SUCH headcanons, isn't she?

I think that I personally, have like three or four for her.

There's literally no way for Hoyo to win with her. No matter what they do with her, like three quarters of the player base are going to be disappointed and/or outraged...

Ecstatic-Source60012026-01-12 17:46

well she must be playabe (read as she must be good person)

so its aready should piss off 50%

KyrrithK2026-01-12 13:17

Do you know what makes for a cool story? A character that meets an obstacle, figures out how to get around the obstacle or perseveres in climbing over the obstacle, and ultimately triumphing through their own efforts. Not only is the moment of triumph enjoyable, but the journey is also interesting, not being sure if they'll succeed or how, and maybe the character has to adapt or grow to be able to deal with the challenge.

Do you know what isn't a cool story? A character meets an obstacle, and the obstacles just immediately goes "No, you're right, I'll get out of your way." and the character just keeps doing what they were doing. No glimpse into how the character would solve the problem, no growth, no interesting story, no triumph over adversity, just the character being perfect and everything else being wrong. Boring story, boring character.

She doesn't have to be "Emo", but most of what she does feels effortless. She gambles on chance for her plan to work out, and everyone just accepts that. There's no clever strategy to deal with anything, just "Trust me bro, it'll work". So it just feels like her successes aren't 'earned' properly, because everything just works out for her without a struggle.

And in the end, after the whole nation has hammered home the "No one fights alone" message and the Shonen "Nakama = power", and it's been all about the 6 Heroes, at the end she just does the final battle on her own, with Traveler there to watch because they're the main character. And when we get to the cost for her actions, someone else just volunteers to step in and take the consequences instead, and everyone is just like "Yeah sure man".

Act 5 specifically was just such a let down. Act 4 was the real peak.

Noox_132026-01-12 14:03

Completely agre with the last part. Loved act 4 but then didn't enjoy act 5.

No_Cap76782026-01-12 14:20

Oh dude yeah. You pin points the exact boring points that can resume the whole Natlan story and explain why it's so flat. Ufff that was so boring to watch

Ok-Temporary-51262026-01-12 13:19

Mavuika ironically has an issue similar to book MC translated to film. The nuance and depth of her character is there in the readable actually, but it is not addressed quiet enough in the AQ. In her character story, she has much depth regarding her decision and individual. How she saw her dad slowly dying due to his war wound and that triggered her to stop the war once and for all - not as the Pyro Archon, but as daughter who loves her dad. How her decision to be resurrected 500 years later was controversial. How although she's friendly deep down she felt lonely because her friends and families were all already passing. How she though she's carrying the weight all alone until the Traveller and Capitano came, and they're also people who lived 500 years ago. The nuances of her character is already there, but it's locked behind. They should storytell these parts of her in the AQ even more

OwnRepresentative9162026-01-12 13:50

Great take

arbabarda2026-01-12 13:19

because she's not interesting. She's boring, and that's the worst when it comes to a fictional character. It has no relief, it has no texture, it has nothing to explore. She's so painstakingly perfect that it's not interesting. Bumps, roughness, flaws - that's what makes it interesting, that's what attention clings to. At least that's something. There is nothing in Mavuik. It's not bad in itself, it's bad written. Well, not very good styling and integration into the game also, of course, plays a role.

erosugiru2026-01-12 13:22

I really like how they characterized Mavuika so far. People might say it's not doing much for them but I think they're relying too much on overtly emotional moments that they can't notice subtle characterization for Archons anymore. Especially for someone has painfully straightforward yet emotionally closed off as Mavuika.

I can't wait for more Natlan main story content featuring her eventual breakdown a la Raiden Ei Festival.

External_Internet_502026-01-12 13:24

The problem isn't being a sad emo, but being a unique character.

Mavuika has nothing special, she's just a strong character and that's it. Where does she use something truly important to make a motorcycle?! (I won't give any spoilers; anyone who's done or done the Quest will understand.) Seriously, Mavuika?

She has a dull personality, her outfit is really... Huh? Why does the zipper end right there? If you like aesthetics, go ahead, but it's secondary.

In several events, she appears just to annoy me, she's literally left me with nothing... If you like her, fine, but it's just my personal opinion, remember that guys! That said, for me, that's why I didn't like Mavuika very much. Because she's nothing special, and there's no need for traumatic stuff, because Xilonen is a great character and has a nice personality without her having any trauma. He just has a great personality and a fantastic Quest that brings out his well-done character!

markcan_killua2026-01-12 13:46

the funny things is her relationship with xilonen is prob the most interesting thing about her cos it adds so much more nuance to her character. It’s the first time we see the ‘non archon’ side to her which is something she needs more of to better flesh out her personality

External_Internet_502026-01-12 13:53

Xilonen mvp ahahahaha

San-Kyu2026-01-12 13:25

It's a bit on the nose is all. The one archon that's explicitly human in origin (Tsaritsa is still TBA) happens to be the most well adjusted, who simultaneously has the biggest existential threat to face out of all of them.

If this was a superhero ensemble, Mavuika would be Captain America/Superman to everyone else's Ironman/Batman. The paragon is just inherently less interesting and relatable than the heroes that struggle with flaws and don't necessarily win in the end against themselves.

Zenith_30002026-01-12 13:28

You're better off choosing to simply agree to disagree and move on, rather than beating this incredibly dead horse. If you still don't get it after a year, then you probably don't want to get it...

CucumberNew9002026-01-12 13:31

And even when we actually get an “incompetent” Archon, people still hate anyway. Just look at Furina before the finale, the community was calling her useless and saying Neuvillette should’ve been the Archon. Then the finale dropped and suddenly everyone switched up.

Whether an Archon is competent or not, people will always find something to complain about. That’s why if you’re active in this community and actually enjoy the game, you need the endurance to ignore this kind of negativity. If you don’t, it’s really easy for it to influence how you think about the game.

Real-Contest49142026-01-12 14:07

Ei was the most incompetent fo them all, and that was the focus of her story.(she's a grieving woman who gets an entire nation thrust on her shoulder's as her responsibility and has to pretend that nothing happened because the world didn't know their was two archons sharing the role)
Ei...couldn't handle it, she ran from the problem, got depressed and locked herself in her room and pushed the responsibility to someone else. She couldn't cope and as a result both her nation and her people ended up suffering.

And yet people still ignore that and vilified her because even after it's clearly stated both in the aq and her story quest that she has been lied to.

People still can't seem to fathom that her assurance that the fatui is no issue is because she still trusts her tri commission who is among her inner circle who she has no reason to doubt.

Like the story beats you over the head with, hey she's been lied to do, but when she shows signs in believing the lie and doesn't just magically believe us right away, she's apparently aware and doesn't care.

She's the archon who is most flawed, and she gets the most development but people just can't acknowledge that because rather than be a sad girl crying , her actions actually did have repercussions for those around her.

CucumberNew9002026-01-12 14:19

Ei was basically presented as a villain during the Archon Quest, yet a lot of people completely overlooked the bad things she did and instead hyper-focused on her aura and the whole booba sword thing. That’s why I use Furina as an example she was presented as someone who “wasn’t doing anything,” while Ei *was* actively doing something, just for all the wrong reasons.

The duality is honestly insane. People will always judge characters at face value without actually thinking about the harm caused or how incompetent Ei was as an Archon during that period. It really shows how selective the community can be when it comes to criticism.

Real-Contest49142026-01-12 14:35

Honestly that made it better for me.

Ei's incompetence wasn't just...oh...some people are uncomfortable.

Like with furina her incompetence doesn't exactly amount to any big consequences, the impact is nothing so big and life changing for anyone in the story and apart from the flood you don't really feel it as much.

You could argue navia's partners were a consequence but you could say the same for teppei.

Meanwhile ei's actions have big impacts on wanderer who is another major character in story so the after effects are felt even though inazuma is finished. Her actions are felt by kazuha and others who have their backstories revovled around Ei's issues.

Kazuha was force to fled because of her.
Wanderer has his whole story.
Yae is left alone without her friend.
Itto's rivalry with sara is born from sara siezing his vision under her orders for the decree.

You go to fontaine, furina's incompetence doesn't impact any character at all.

Yo go to inazuma and their is few people who ei hasn't impacted.

4to5enthusiast2026-01-12 14:11

people hating/doubting furina up until the switch up was the intended thing though and why it worked so well, ppl were coping at the start of natlan that they'll add some spice to mavuika too but nope that's it, straightforward as a brick

CucumberNew9002026-01-12 14:14

Yeah i agree and that's why i use furina as an example for an incompetent archon that people actually hated before the switch up.

Isk4nd4r_rd2026-01-12 13:38

She is neither cool nor good at her job. Shes a MarySue in a gimpsuit with emotional range of a gardemech, riding a goofyass bike. And she needed not 1, but 2 deus ex machinas to solve her problem.

Katicflis12026-01-12 13:39

Mavu just has a bizarre idealism that she's never punished for. Outside of Capitano who starts off as her antagonist but then quickly decides she's right about everything and give her control of his Fatui, she's just right about everything all the time and everyone pretty much agrees with her all the time. (Hallmark feature of Mary sue by the way is a leader giving control of something to the Mary sue -- the first Mary Sue joke story had Captain Kirk give control of the enterprise to Mary Sue because she's so talented, then add "everyone likes Mavu/she does no wrong" which are other characteristics of Mary Sue).

I think Mavu would have super benefitted from one of two things happening(or both?).

1. Capitano actually remaining an obstacle for her -- maybe they buddy up at the END of the journey but not 2/5s of the way in.
2. When Chasca's sister dies and Chasca unlocks rage power, they should have DONE SOMETHING WITH IT. If Chasca power is rage, make her actually do a rage thing. Write her to go blame her sister's death on Mavuika's insane level of optimism and actually go get into a fist fight with Mavuika where Mavu has to subdue her. With Capitano's plan, her sister may have gotten to live. Give Chasca a "Fuck Mavu for this!" moment as she's hit with all this rage-power.

I think putting Mavu into a situation where she had to physically fight/subdue an enraged comrade would have given Natlan some really entertaining spice and given Mavu an actual big dramatic moment where she has an internal reckoning with her decision making. Have Chasca collapse into tears while Mavuika has to pin her down. Make Mavu visually and intensely have to consider the idea that shit, maybe she's wrong about something, as she's forcing Chasca to stop attacking her. Give Mavu a severe "she was shaken at the core" moment. Make her break a little the second she's out of Chasca's presence.

Its funny to go from Fontaine to Natlan because Fontaine was FULL of people calling each other out and having beef with each other.

\-Wrio pretended to Lyney that he had kidnapped/hurt Lyney's sister. Caused Lyney to freak out a little, Sigwinne had to intervene and call out Wrio for doing this.

\-Clorinde and Navia's beef with each other.

\-Navia's beef with neuvillette -- with Neuvillette so blindly 'justice coded' that he allowed Navia's innocent father to die because "that's how their justice works."

\-Childe getting arrested by Neuvillette.

\-Arlecchino attacking/maybe-willing-to-assassinate Furina. Arlecchino then having tea with a TERRIFIED Furina in one of the scenes afterwards.

\-Just Wrio as warden considering his history with Neuv.

Like Fontaine CONSTANTLY put characters at odds to each other and it made for a region with a lot of interesting character interactions. I needed some of that energy in Natlan, but everyone was buddy buddy besides Capitano for four minutes. Chasca particularly felt like a missed opportunity for bringing some intensity to Natlan that it really could have used from the main cast, because the only intensity otherwise was a fight with the big bad dragon that we always knew was gonna turn out juuuust fine.

Final note: I actually really like Mavuika; my problem is they didn't challenge her enough.

No_Cap76782026-01-12 14:27

Dude i loved your idea for Mavuika-Chasca, it would have been so great and would have shown there were some things at stake there.

I absolutly agree for the Capitano part.

kokko6932026-01-12 14:42

I disagree with the beef things, I don't think characters having beef with each others make a story good.

Actually characters having beef when it's WAR make no sense for me. It's not the time to do that. Mavuika is not any leader, it's a war leader, and a war leader needs to be strong and just. Being weak or harsh make no good leader. They need her people to follow her willingly.

What made the intensity for me was how war was depicted. People complained about Inazuma civil "war" and I agree with them. The 20vs20 on a beach and basically immature writing, was very shallow. They wanted to make a sengoku era kind of story but failed.

Now, Natlan, for the country of WAR, succeeded at making a great war.

There are enemies everywhere, there are corpses, the countries burn, there is a feeling of despair, Paimon said "I don't want to see this anymore" with a sad voice.

YOU have to take action and decisions, what you chose matter, the casualty number goes up.

That part especially was good. Also doing the tribe quests helps with bonding with the characters.

You need to roleplay more as traveller, that will give you the intensity you want.

I did Natlan in one go after all the patches, and without reading stuff online, I was happy

Katicflis12026-01-12 14:43

Dude beef is at an all time high when war is happening in the real world. Beef stocks skyrocket when people are dying over decisions.

kokko6932026-01-12 15:19

Depends.

I could see beef when you go full meatgrinder on another country with little result and lots of ded.

But on the other sides if you are defending and do your best at surviving until the enemy gets tired OR you can win in another way, I don't think there is that much beef. People can understand.

ComfortableTraffic122026-01-12 13:39

Oh my god again 😭 Why can't we let the natlan discourse go already 😭

More_Education53192026-01-12 13:40

I'm ngl I liked Natlan and Mavuika by proxy but this subs incessant need to accept every thing hoyo feeds them and shut down every bit of criticism is insufferable, especially since we've had these conversations so many times in the past year. Yes, Mavuika is cool, and breaks the preestablished mold of being a fairly simple, easy to digest character for an Archon. She's very intrinsically good as well as capable in a way that no other archon before has been. Some people like it better that way, having a powerful character who's on your side the whole way through. She's very grounded and engaged with the plot as well as her people, which makes her come off less an all powerful god, and more a friend, which in hindsight fits with the story of Natlan.

Yes, she's also a much more shallow character compared to other archons. Struggle is a very inherent part of the human experience and the fact that Mavuika is able to do most things well and competently might make her come off less human (somewhat ironic for being the human archon). It doesn't really matter that she's likeable and endearing, she doesn't quite have the same depth and complexity as Nahida or Furina, she's not as mysterious as Venti or Zhongli, and she's not a mix of both like Ei. You can like the fact that she's quite simple, but if other people don't or are disappointed because of the history of archons that came before, so what?

Capital-Trainer37932026-01-12 13:43

Don't start this again? Oh my god. Haters don't need any reason to hate. They hate because they wanna hate.

Noox_132026-01-12 14:31

Not everyone who dislikes Mavu is a hater. I for one don't hate her. I just think she was poorly written and kinda boring in the main story. She has interesting stuff outside of that but it wasn't enough to make me like her. It has nothing to do with being competent as there are tons of competent characters that I love.
On a similar note I enjoyed most of Natlan's main story, especially act 4, but was very disappointed by act 5.

kemirgen172026-01-12 13:43

People hate her mostly because she outdamages their favorite fatui mommy.

Chance-Range28552026-01-12 13:46

Its her bike

PidoveEnjoyer2026-01-12 13:50

I simp for my competent Genshin characters.

Shoutout to Amber, Jean and Mavuika for being productivity machines

DI3S_IRAE2026-01-12 13:54

Opinions vary.

I think Mav story was tied to her past deeds, and many people may miss it if it's not shown wnd explained.

We saw how she basically sacrificed herself and left family behind to start a 500 year plan strategy, and how she almost lost sight of it all in the road.

When coming back, she came back to Natlan.

Natlanese people have no time for sorrow. See aunt A.... The one from the springs with the pyro vision.

She is basically dying there, and is toughing all up as if nothing happened.

Mavuika is basically the spirit of the Natlanese people. Swallow everything, leave all that is precious behind to face the enemy head on.

It's not that her plan was perfect and she was just overconfident. It's that she had nothing left to do. She couldn't have doubts there.

It worked well for Natlan overall. They were always a collective of souls tied to their region, not able to leave, forced to fight over and over at the risk of losing even their lost ones on the night kingdom.

And there's also the spirit thing of the heroes. They inherit ancient names and their memories. It gives people with ancient names a lot to go with.

Mavuika has not only herself to count on, but the experience of all past people who had the name. This is key point.

We see Natlanese tend to just be confident and move as if nothing can stop them. And that's how they were able to resist all these years.

Mavuika being confident on her plan is a mirror of her nation. They didn't give her time to doubt, instead they fully trust their archons because they inherit the title, full humans who are strong enough for that, and it creates a bond that nothing else can destroy.

She had no reason to doubt or fear, because everyone believed and was counting on her.

That's what is written for them. No one fights alone.

Mavuika was not toughing up everything, the thing is everyone else was carrying the same burden.

Venti is basically far from his nation and doesn't really help. Ei isolated herself and the nation was extremely divided by mistrust and betrayal. Nahida is Nahida, and Furina was caught up in a 500 year roleplay.

Mavuika had the help of her whole nation all the time, and competent people who understood her all the time by her side. They were all friends united for war, and her personality shows that.

She's a good, trusted leader. Adding drama to her story could actually not go well.

What we can criticize is the presentation of the story. The fact that traveler and probably Mav died to the abyss at that fight got extremely overshadowed.

tuataraaa2026-01-12 13:54

some people just didn't have their fill of "imperfect character with a sad backstory" yet

I love that we finally have a character who actually gets shit done, even better that she does it effortlessly 90% of the time - it's so simple, yet so refreshing

Tron_bonneLoFi2026-01-12 13:59

How dare you call nahida an emo.

The most competent archon is the one that was locked and betrayed by her retainers, but never stopped loving and doing EVERYTHING, no matter how small, to improve her people's lives.

Nahida is what an archon should be and the only archon that really deserves worshipping.

Traditional_Elk20462026-01-12 13:59

There's no problem with having a competent non protagonist character in a story, I think Levi from AoT is one of the biggest examples and he's one of the most beloved characters in the series.

The problem with Mavuika is that being competent is not backed up by anything significant in the story. She solved everything in a way that had no business working and mostly relying of luck. The problem lies in the fact that the story wants you to believe that she's competent, but it gives you very little reasons to actually believe that.

The problem is not how Mavuika was written, but how the AQ was written

Noox_132026-01-12 14:08

I don't have anything against competent characters. Plenty of the playable characters are very competent and I love them. But for Mavuika specifically I just find her to be a very boring character. If you like her that's fine, we all have our own opinions. Mine is that she was the most boring playable character on screen during the story. She has some very interesting stuff outside the main story but it wasn't enough to make me like her.

Real-Contest49142026-01-12 14:22

Mavuika is the god of a nation built on suffering.

Like here's the thing any tragedy you want to force on mavuika, everyone else in natlan has it.

Dead friends, dead parents, dead siblings, dead whatever.

Everyone in natlan has some form of loss and the story explores that through them because it needs to sell that.

We need to see the despair of the people.

Mavuika meanwhile is meant to show the hope and the ability to move beyond that.

She represents the nation's ability to move on and not be burdened by the past and not to be held back by pain and trauma of the loss.

You have kinich story, chasca story, xilonen's story, kachina/mualani's segment, ororon's segment, even capitano who are all people experience loss and reach certain extremes.

Mavuika is meant to contrast them.

Creme_de_laCreme2026-01-12 14:28

I actually love the fact that she is competent and actively running her nation. But I do quite dislike her design and the bike.

D0cJack2026-01-12 15:14

Give it 2 days and they'll start hating the new Archon and finally leave Mav alone.

hatsu-232026-01-12 15:19

In a war torn country where many have lost their families, mind or will to fight, Mavuika was their ray of hope/ blazing sun in the darkness of the abyss they were facing.

In times of despair, people cling to deities and higher authorities to save them, to show them the way. I love that Mavuika tries her best to embodie the God her people need. It works so well because this is something she understands perfectly as she is human like them.

She couldn't show weakness to her people because if the flame that keeps the shadows at bay were to falter, the darkness would dip its claws into the land and the minds of the people. She had to remain strong as it was possibly the last large battle they would have to liberate Natlan of the abyss's influence and I think she did that beautifully.

I do agree with the criticism that her plan didn't get challenged enough. I would've loved for her to defend her luck base plan some more😅

_krays2026-01-12 15:23

Yeah, people act like “emotionally stable and competent” automatically means boring. She actually has a lot going on if you pay attention, just not the usual sad backstory flavor

Fabulous_Ground_19832026-01-13 08:12

Fully agreed

Shahadem2026-01-12 15:50

Zhongli is also competent. So is Venti.

Nahida is competent.

The thing that makes Mavuika a Mary Sue is that she is too involved with every aspect of Natlan and everything works perfectly for her all the time. She never faces any real opposition or loss. She is even more perfect than Mary Poppins.

TrashApprentice2026-01-12 16:00

The problem isn't that she's competent the problem is that having no onscreen flaws, never being wrong and never losing just makes for a character boring. My problem with Mavuika is the same problem with all of those Hollywood girlboss characters in that they make them too perfect without any flaws or interesting internal arcs and have them easily kick everyone's ass to never let them struggle and it's just boring to watch.

Sun_Wukong5082026-01-12 17:53

because all that takes thought and its easier just to complain its not spelt out

Vegetto_ssj2026-01-12 18:38

Competent isn't the problem. Where did you see it?

But being flawless is the main complain, making her a boring character for a lot of them.
We have a lot of loved competent characters.

Fabulous_Ground_19832026-01-13 08:00

But she isnt flawless.

Vegetto_ssj2026-01-13 10:55

Evidently the game didn't do a good job of representing them and working on them if there are so many criticisms about it.

gnusica2026-01-12 19:04

Almost nobody likes a character that is always right about everything and always wins every single battle. It's just boring.

Fabulous_Ground_19832026-01-13 08:12

She's not boring. I love that she's a stand up leader who is strong, compassionate, and brings hope to her people. It's refreshing when the past 3 archons all had past trauma and turmoil they had to get through. Not every character needs a super sad backstory.

But you're also wrong, Mavuika's plan at the end was proven to be not the correct way by Capitano himself. She convinced herself she had to be the one to sacrifice everything,

_ironhearted_2026-01-13 08:00

I don't think anyone was mad about her being competent. Everyone was literally waiting for a competent archon

But we never saw any of her background on screen. She didn't _have_ any characterization. She's good at everything, she is super strong, she has a plan and it succeeds easily, everyone loves her. We didn't go on a journey with her. They had characters constantly point out how cool she is but we never saw it organically.

I think the intended direction for her character was very good, but they never got to show anything as such. Lauma is also extremely competent, but everyone likes her. Because we saw her struggle on screen, and she doesn't automatically fix everything, we see how hard she works towards it. That way, seeing her succeed feels better. All frostmoon scions glazing her feels natural lol. We never saw that with Mavuika.

Fabulous_Ground_19832026-01-13 08:01

Because people on twitter are misogynist

jonnevituwu2026-01-13 10:39

She is perfectly boring, thats why.

Her "bad parts", arent actually something that she gets punished for; she is called someone who goes head on on problems that she doesnt even know how to deal with and just expects things to work cuz she trusts ppl around her which is not exactly wise as a leader of a nation at war with you know, abyss horrors. This never gets punished so it is never a real problem.

Characters have to be flawed in ways that they grow out of that when the story progresses or at the very least have consequences that changes them.

We met Furina as a little brat at first but then we learn why she... *Acts* like that and how she was trying her goddamn best to be someone she wasnt, so much so that she ends up keeping a good part of that personality but after everything is done she just wants to rest away from the spotlights.

Even if it hurts her a little bit she still goes and "saves the day" acting one more time on her quest but still prefers the role of director.

Flawed for a reason and said flaw is explored well.