You're probably going to cancel me for what I'm about to say, but I've been thinking this for years and Nod Krai has only frustrated me more.
Genshin has a good story, but it has many weak points, especially regarding the protagonist. I think the problem is obvious: Genshin gives the spotlight to the character they want to sell, and that makes the traveler end up being a spectator, which is very anticlimactic. The only exception is Natlan, where we actually become national heroes alongside Mavuika, fighting side-by-side in the Abyss, even though we had some help. It was the only region where the protagonist felt like a true protagonist. Now that we're in Nod Krai, it feels like the traveler has lost power again, very inconsistent.
The real spotlight is always given to the character they want to sell us, and having Paimon speak for us almost all the time, always with those unbearable sarcastic replies, makes it worse.
In Mondstadt, i'm almost convinced that Venti could have prevented Signora from stealing his Gnosis, but for some reason, he let her.
In Liyue, for example, even though we defeated Tartaglia, everything we did was absolutely pointless, because in the end, Zhongli had already made a pact with Signora for his Gnosis. So, even if we hadn't been there, nothing would have changed. In Inazuma, aside from all the plot holes, everything we did was stupid, from joining a resistance that had no reason to exist, completely carried by the characters of the moment.
In Sumeru, we could say we did something, but the result was the same: stolen Gnosis. At most, we saved Nahida, nothing more. At this point, I had already lost patience with the story. How could the outcome always be the same? I could already see that all the regions were going to be the same, with the same results.
In Fontaine, it's the most annoying story arc of all. Sure, Furina's story is incredible, and the plot stands on its own, up to that point, it was by far the best constructed storyline. But in reality, our usefulness is nil. In Fontaine, we literally did nothing, and I can't even understand how Furina grew fond of us when, in the end, we betrayed her to bring her to trial. Yes, you could tell me it was Focalors' plan, but that plan was already underway without taking us into account. I was disgusted when Furina was in such a bad state, on the verge of a psychological breakdown, and we tricked her into going to court and attacking her with everything we had. We ended up conspiring with a fatui to betray the archon's trust, and when she needed our support, we stabbed her in the back. In the end, it was precisely Furina and Focalors plan that saved Fontaine. Furina should have been recognized as the heroine of Fontaine for all the sacrifices she made. It's ironic that I say this, because Fontaine's story is excellent, but it's excellent without the traveler, our presence is irrelevant.
Finally, in Natlan, the Traveler finally had a leading role. For the first time, I felt like we were changing and actively participating in the story, truly being useful. And even though is not perfect or an all- owerful protagonist, in the end, I did feel he/she deserved the recognition he/she received.
Then in Nod Krai, just hours after the release of 6.3, we experienced another huge setback. The Traveler is already wandering aimlessly, he was easily defeated by Rerir, and although he defended himself well against Dottore, he still wasn't up to par. And once again, it's the Nod Krai characters who are carrying the protagonist. How could it be that after all the growth we saw in Natlan, Aether/Lumine is back to being on the same level as in Inazuma? We went from fighting the Abyss Dragon alongside Mavuika to having the Nod Krai characters be the ones keeping us alive.
As much as I like Genshin, these are the things I dislike and detest most about the story. I can understand that at the beginning we lost our power and are slowly improving, but at this point, there's no justification for how useless they make the protagonist out to be. On the other hand, Mihoyo is very blatant with the prominence given to the characters of the moment; the flaws are quite glaring. Obviously, I'm not asking for an isekai protagonist who lifts a finger and destroys the world, but a protagonist who is just a spectator, except in Natlan, feels bland, cold, anticlimactic, and lacking.
This also leads me to believe that, although they have the general concept of the game's story written down, from here until the end, they are probably improvising a lot on the fly and either don't realize the mistakes, or ignore them completely. At this point, and after the drop in quality in Nod Krai, whose story is completely carried by Columbina, I doubt we're going to see a real improvement in the protagonist other than giving him a little more dialogue.
I hope the lunar quest launching in a few hours shut my mouth, and I know many will downvote me, but I'm so frustrated about some things that I just wanted to get it off my chest.
The real spotlight is always given to the character they want to sell us, and having Paimon speak for us almost all the time, always with those unbearable sarcastic replies, makes it worse.
In Mondstadt, i'm almost convinced that Venti could have prevented Signora from stealing his Gnosis, but for some reason, he let her.
In Liyue, for example, even though we defeated Tartaglia, everything we did was absolutely pointless, because in the end, Zhongli had already made a pact with Signora for his Gnosis. So, even if we hadn't been there, nothing would have changed. In Inazuma, aside from all the plot holes, everything we did was stupid, from joining a resistance that had no reason to exist, completely carried by the characters of the moment.
In Sumeru, we could say we did something, but the result was the same: stolen Gnosis. At most, we saved Nahida, nothing more. At this point, I had already lost patience with the story. How could the outcome always be the same? I could already see that all the regions were going to be the same, with the same results.
In Fontaine, it's the most annoying story arc of all. Sure, Furina's story is incredible, and the plot stands on its own, up to that point, it was by far the best constructed storyline. But in reality, our usefulness is nil. In Fontaine, we literally did nothing, and I can't even understand how Furina grew fond of us when, in the end, we betrayed her to bring her to trial. Yes, you could tell me it was Focalors' plan, but that plan was already underway without taking us into account. I was disgusted when Furina was in such a bad state, on the verge of a psychological breakdown, and we tricked her into going to court and attacking her with everything we had. We ended up conspiring with a fatui to betray the archon's trust, and when she needed our support, we stabbed her in the back. In the end, it was precisely Furina and Focalors plan that saved Fontaine. Furina should have been recognized as the heroine of Fontaine for all the sacrifices she made. It's ironic that I say this, because Fontaine's story is excellent, but it's excellent without the traveler, our presence is irrelevant.
Finally, in Natlan, the Traveler finally had a leading role. For the first time, I felt like we were changing and actively participating in the story, truly being useful. And even though is not perfect or an all- owerful protagonist, in the end, I did feel he/she deserved the recognition he/she received.
Then in Nod Krai, just hours after the release of 6.3, we experienced another huge setback. The Traveler is already wandering aimlessly, he was easily defeated by Rerir, and although he defended himself well against Dottore, he still wasn't up to par. And once again, it's the Nod Krai characters who are carrying the protagonist. How could it be that after all the growth we saw in Natlan, Aether/Lumine is back to being on the same level as in Inazuma? We went from fighting the Abyss Dragon alongside Mavuika to having the Nod Krai characters be the ones keeping us alive.
As much as I like Genshin, these are the things I dislike and detest most about the story. I can understand that at the beginning we lost our power and are slowly improving, but at this point, there's no justification for how useless they make the protagonist out to be. On the other hand, Mihoyo is very blatant with the prominence given to the characters of the moment; the flaws are quite glaring. Obviously, I'm not asking for an isekai protagonist who lifts a finger and destroys the world, but a protagonist who is just a spectator, except in Natlan, feels bland, cold, anticlimactic, and lacking.
This also leads me to believe that, although they have the general concept of the game's story written down, from here until the end, they are probably improvising a lot on the fly and either don't realize the mistakes, or ignore them completely. At this point, and after the drop in quality in Nod Krai, whose story is completely carried by Columbina, I doubt we're going to see a real improvement in the protagonist other than giving him a little more dialogue.
I hope the lunar quest launching in a few hours shut my mouth, and I know many will downvote me, but I'm so frustrated about some things that I just wanted to get it off my chest.
Commentaires
I dunno how its been a downgrade when we've moved on from the days of Traveler getting punked by Arlecchino.
The game is not really about us, proof being that the Traveler is the least played character in the game.
Why make the player be present for a story that does not need them?
The whole point of playing a video game verse watching a movie is having agency over the story. Denying the player agency is violating the purpose of playing a video game
Idk why you're expecting the Traveler to be able to solo Dottore with the power of the moons
The point of Traveler isn't to be a shonen protagonist who is the main focus and solve everything in the main spotlight all the time. Their main role is to be a witness to the events of Teyvat and they help push things along in the direction the "good guys" need it to go
This is also a gacha, selling characters is kind of the point. In fact Nod Krai has been doing wonders to actually show how much Traveler can actually contend with very significant threats and be an asset to beating them. In case you forgot, Traveler was the only one besides Columbina who could resist Dottores time stop
Not really coz Traveler makes very big contributions that wouldn't happen if he wasn't there. FOr some quick examples
Sumeru: no one unites to take down the sages and Free Nahida
Fontaine: Navia dies and the result is many fontainians die in the flood. Also Furina wins the first trial and HoH are much more restricted
Those "very specific moments" are inumerable and you have to take them into account to understand how important Traveler is in making the final results of the nations arcs end the way they did. That is the big picture
The story mainly focuses on the cast of a region and a problem their nation faces, with Traveler just being a supporting cast there to help with and witness the "story", we are not the leading role. it can even be argued that us being a descender is the reason the stories unfold as they do with our involvement.
The only time that we have a more MC role is when it is quests pertaining to the abyss twin, and that makes sense since that is OUR story, something traveler does for themselves not to help others or help a nation, but to learn more about their sibling and what is going on.
Same for character quests it is never us solving the problems for the characters but instead just us being there as a support while the focus is on the character and their story.
But that's was our goal?
The travelller largely doesn't give a fuck about the Gnosis and never did
He doesn't know what a Gnosis is when Signora steals from Venti; Zhongli and Signora deal with Geo Gnosis on their own. They're unconcious when Yae gives the Gnosis for Scara, and also unconcious when Nahida gives both Dendro and Electro Gnosis to Dottore. In none of those plots did the Gnosis ever factor in the traveller decision making.
Everyone is running around looking for the Hydro Gnosis to see if they can use it to save fontaine.
The Gnosis is almost *never* in the Travellers mind, just the players
* Venti: Hard to care about something when they don't know what it is.
* Zhongli: And they actively try to talk him out of it.
* Inazuma/Sumeru: And they were very annoyed about it, but relented since that decision saved their lives.
* Fontaine: They immediately argue about Neuvillette's decision.
* Natlan: The Gnosis is still safe, so nothing to say here.
But the point remain. Op tried to frame the Gnosis as the biggest concern, when it never really was
Not beating the allegations.
The sinners weren't presented as super beings, they were originally presented as evil corrupt normal humans who were simply the ones pushing an agenda.
As the player's character, the Traveler should be the strongest in the fiction. Doing otherwise is the writer indulging himself/herself at the player's expense.
Remember that the story is created for the gratification of the player, not the writer.
Overall, the Traveler is the catalyst for change, but not actually a big driver, because like you said they have to let the pullable characters look cool. If you don't like the current batch of playable characters, then you won't be happy with the current story. It is what it is.
Even starting from Inazuma on we actually did do something and had a change in the world in some way. Because of us the fatui got the gnosis since we got trapped by Scarra so Yae traded us for the gnosis. Without us Ei would probably still completely shut off and the state of Inazuma still wouldnt have changed. I'd say in Sumeru as well. Without the travaler the upper ones would be still in the works, nahida would never be freed and god know what would have happened if we didn't stopped Dottore and Scarra with their experiment. They litterally created a god. And there is no way we would have beaten them without any help. So they do still be the center of the story but with the character of this world, which is not a bad thing. Even though the travaler have progressed by a lot over the years they are still far away from be able to great damage to a lot of "strong" beings in this world. You can't just expect them to be able to defeat one of the sinners solo even at 10%.
Your logic is flawed.
Plus we've been shown many times before that his role in tyvat isn't to be the main star or the strongest or anything, hes a witness, just one with a good heart that doesnt sit by when people need his help. He'll help many times, but he wont be actively looking for challenges like childe.
>Genshin has a good story,
If it did, you wouldnt be making this post
Which doesnt mean that it doesnt have a good story, on the contrary, just that you conflate your opinion for a fact. You dislike the story, even if it is good, because it doesnt suit you or your ideas
>but it has many weak points, especially regarding the protagonist. I think the problem is obvious: Genshin gives the spotlight to the character they want to sell,
Gacha game gives protagonism to new characters, more at 12
Every single gacha game in the history of gacha games has done the exact same thing, at least those that have an actual story to speak off(not you Dokkan), yet when Genshin barely does it, its suddenly a problem
>and that makes the traveler end up being a spectator, which is very anticlimactic.
The entire story is about the Traveller been a witness of the world and storing up Teyvat within their memories even if Teyvat were to disappear entirely tomorrow since Zhongli's SQ, yet somehow it is a bad thing now of all times
>The only exception is Natlan, where we actually become national heroes alongside Mavuika, fighting side-by-side in the Abyss, even though we had some help. It was the only region where the protagonist felt like a true protagonist. Now that we're in Nod Krai, it feels like the traveler has lost power again, very inconsistent.
Lost power how exactly?
Fighting head on a 3 moon powered Dottore, who is n2 of the fucking harbingers btw, with enough power to rival the gods **btw**
All the while equally powerful individuals, including fucking Arlecchino who "low diffed us 2 years ago" were time stopped
Sure, "lost power again"
>The real spotlight is always given to the character they want to sell us, and having Paimon speak for us almost all the time, always with those unbearable sarcastic replies, makes it worse.
Is this a "story bad" post, or is this a "paimon bad" post, honestly cant tell
>In Mondstadt, i'm almost convinced that Venti could have prevented Signora from stealing his Gnosis, but for some reason, he let her.
Venti could drop the entire fatui squad, including those who are free loading inside the hotel for 6 years now back to Snezhnaya if he wanted to just by sneezing
He however feels responsible for the death of Signora's lover(who was a Mondstadt knight btw) so he let her unwind
Not to mention him wanting to cut ties with Celestia
>In Liyue, for example, even though we defeated Tartaglia, everything we did was absolutely pointless, because in the end, Zhongli had already made a pact with Signora for his Gnosis. So, even if we hadn't been there, nothing would have changed.
Sure, adepti and Qixing(humans) would still be fighting, potentially interrupt each other, and end up drowning Liyue Harbor barring Zhongli's intervention which would render the entire thing about him dying pointless
>In Inazuma, aside from all the plot holes, everything we did was stupid, from joining a resistance that had no reason to exist, completely carried by the characters of the moment.
"Plot holes" and it is just story you dislike
A resistance that had no reason to exist, so was the vision hunt decree having no reason to exist, but someone had to oppose it, which is literally what a resistance is for btw
>In Sumeru, we could say we did something, but the result was the same: stolen Gnosis. At most, we saved Nahida, nothing more. At this point, I had already lost patience with the story. How could the outcome always be the same? I could already see that all the regions were going to be the same, with the same results.
Dottore didnt steal shit
He gambled the fuck out of two in exchange for information, which the God of Wisdom didnt have access to btw
>In Fontaine, it's the most annoying story arc of all. Sure, Furina's story is incredible, and the plot stands on its own, up to that point, it was by far the best constructed storyline. But in reality, our usefulness is nil. In Fontaine, we literally did nothing, and I can't even understand how Furina grew fond of us when, in the end, we betrayed her to bring her to trial. Yes, you could tell me it was Focalors' plan, but that plan was already underway without taking us into account. I was disgusted when Furina was in such a bad state, on the verge of a psychological breakdown, and we tricked her into going to court and attacking her with everything we had. We ended up conspiring with a fatui to betray the archon's trust, and when she needed our support, we stabbed her in the back. In the end, it was precisely Furina and Focalors plan that saved Fontaine. Furina should have been recognized as the heroine of Fontaine for all the sacrifices she made. It's ironic that I say this, because Fontaine's story is excellent, but it's excellent without the traveler, our presence is irrelevant.
Not disolvable individual, who is neutral to every faction on the story, manages to make everyone work together to stop the flood from completting itself, all the while battling alongside a fucking hydro sovereign against a Sinner *pet* which almost ate the entire nation btw
>Finally, in Natlan, the Traveler finally had a leading role. For the first time, I felt like we were changing and actively participating in the story, truly being useful. And even though is not perfect or an all- owerful protagonist, in the end, I did feel he/she deserved the recognition he/she received.
Only good portion of the entire thread btw
>Then in Nod Krai, just hours after the release of 6.3, we experienced another huge setback. The Traveler is already wandering aimlessly, he was easily defeated by Rerir, and although he defended himself well against Dottore, he still wasn't up to par. And once again, it's the Nod Krai characters who are carrying the protagonist. How could it be that after all the growth we saw in Natlan, Aether/Lumine is back to being on the same level as in Inazuma? We went from fighting the Abyss Dragon alongside Mavuika to having the Nod Krai characters be the ones keeping us alive.
Easily defeated by a Sinner, repeat it with me, a **SINNER**, one of the 6 most powerful individuals in all Teyvat, an immortal one at that
And not sure I would consider it "easily defeated", he started resorting to just attacking the backline while the frontlining tank had the upper hand
He was also later just powered with Kuuvakhi while we had to extert ourselves just to deflect the Kuuvakhi cannon from giving him back 100% of his power
>As much as I like Genshin, these are the things I dislike and detest most about the story. I can understand that at the beginning we lost our power and are slowly improving, but at this point, there's no justification for how useless they make the protagonist out to be.
Its called keeping threat level high and is a signal of actually good writing
If the traveler easily defeated Arlecchino like your kin wanted, then any other lower ranking harbinger would be pointless story wise
Same with Sinners, if they were easily able to low diff Rerir, an immortal to boot
An example would be if HP would defeat Voldemort on their first encounter, that would remove the need of the rest of the books
>On the other hand, Mihoyo is very blatant with the prominence given to the characters of the moment; the flaws are quite glaring.
Flaws to you, are what the community actively asked for, more involvement from the cast, both old and new, to defeat whatever threat lingers atop any given nation
>Obviously, I'm not asking for an isekai protagonist who lifts a finger and destroys the world, but a protagonist who is just a spectator, except in Natlan, feels bland, cold, anticlimactic, and lacking.
You are if you think been "easily defeated" by one of the 6 most powerful figures in Teyvat is somehow "losing power"
>This also leads me to believe that, although they have the general concept of the game's story written down, from here until the end, they are probably improvising a lot on the fly and either don't realize the mistakes, or ignore them completely.
Improvising a lot on the fly. Your post is an improvisation given you lack any valid reason beyond personal expectations not been met, to justify your hatred for an story you call "good"
Lore has been completed since day 1, its just slowly been shoehorned into the players faces because they refuse to pay attention, case on point complaining the ||Moon Sisters are *yet another group of females*|| spoiler tagged cuz leak content(albeit known truth be told)
>At this point, and after the drop in quality in Nod Krai, whose story is completely carried by Columbina, I doubt we're going to see a real improvement in the protagonist other than giving him a little more dialogue
A little more dialogue and we are yapping as much as Paimon btw
Nod Krai "completely carried by Columbina", have you turned your monitor off during the entire questline and only turned it on for Columbina or something?
>I hope the lunar quest launching in a few hours shut my mouth, and I know many will downvote me, but I'm so frustrated about some things that I just wanted to get it off my chest.
And thats the problem, your own frustration clouds your ability to judge things objectively, and resort to your own personal opinion and expectations not been met in its entirety to be mad about the story, even tho its way deeper and complex than you make it out to be
* Monstadt: You and everyone else. Venti barely made an effort there.
* Liyue: True.
* Inazuma: The rebellion **had** reason to exist, but the Traveller’s role was poorly implemented.
* Sumeru: You make it sound like saving Nahida and the people of Sumeru wasn't a worthy goal. The Traveller was blind-sided and knocked out by our current big bad of the region.
* Fontaine: Furina grew fond of the Traveller due to her SQ, not the AQ itself. Furina's judgment was the final requirement, it was almost meant to happen. But yes, the Traveller was just a pawn in that play.
* Natlan: Fair.
* Nodkrai: You are severely underestimating the power of a Sinner. They have been portrayed as being bigger powerhouses than the Archons. Rerir was a group effort, and that is the only way the story could have unfolded without involving other parties. Dottore had the power of 3 Moons at that time. I find that the fact he was keeping up with the super-jacked version of the 2nd Harbinger to be a good feat.
>In Mondstadt, i'm almost convinced that Venti could have prevented Signora from stealing his Gnosis, but for some reason, he let her.
It's always worth remembering that, if we're basing Genshin's characters on flawed humans, that he may have his reasons for not putting up more resistance. There is much we don't know.
>In Liyue, for example, even though we defeated Tartaglia, everything we did was absolutely pointless,
Let's say you're an investigator hunting down a criminal. At the crime scene you find no outstanding evidence, but you do find a bunch of witnesses, most of whom are simply passerby or bystanders. Normally your attention wouldn't be drawn to them. In fact, this story trope is often used in mystery novels and scripts; in BBC's *Sherlock: A Study in Pink* a London cabbie ends up being the antagonist. You certainly wouldn't expect such a "nobody" to be so important, would you?
>In Inazuma, aside from all the plot holes, everything we did was stupid,
You may recall that Traveler was pretty loathe to get involved with Inazuma's war of atrition, even explicitly saying so multiple times - once even to an acting head of a Commission. I would say that we were "used" by the more strategic entities in Inazuma, both friendly and hostile; this is pretty true-to-life given how easy it is to be manipulated in real life if someone finds a way to motivate you.
>In Sumeru, we could say we did something, but the result was the same: stolen Gnosis.
I would not call a purchased Gnosis "stolen" but I digress there. Sumeru's AQ questline takes much greater meaning after digging through the desert and the Aranara quest chains. You suddenly realize what a bargain the Gnosis is being sold for; given current circumstances, it implies that maybe that bargain has been violated, too.
>But in reality, our usefulness is nil.
There is no greater friend than one that listens. And a friend that listens to an Archon-in-place? What a burden to carry. I wager that "importance to Teyvat as a whole" isn't always the value MiHoYo's storywriters are seeking.
>Finally, in Natlan, the Traveler finally had a leading role. For the first time, I felt like we were changing and actively participating in the story, truly being useful.
A Traveler gains the most wisdom when they walk the most miles. Given our previous encounters with gods, demigods, Archons, factionalization and warfare, I would imagine we're well-equipped to get involved more often. I also think there's some hidden motivations to Traveler's interest in the Natlan war against the Abyss, and those motivations are served well by their contribution.
>At this point, and after the drop in quality in Nod Krai, whose story is completely carried by Columbina, I doubt we're going to see a real improvement in the protagonist other than giving him a little more dialogue.
Would you change your perspective if, by the very definition of "protagonist", we weren't actually the protagonist in this tale? Perhaps from a mechanical, gameplay perspective we are, but wouldn't it be fascinating if that wasn't true?
Anyway, just a few thoughts. Anyone's welcome to comment or discuss, as long as it's civil. <3
Could be due to regional discrimination or something, idk.
I've been saying this for years.
Nobody else cares. In fact some people are happy with this state of affairs. I have no idea why.
Just look at this thread. It is full of people who are clapping for Hoyo's bad writing decisions and celebrating their lack of agency over the story.
You cannot save people who do not want to be saved. All you can do is get out yourself.
Ever since mid Inazuma Genshin has failed at being a video game. The purpose of a video game is giving the player illusionary agency over the story. To trick the player into thinking that through their effort that they, through control of their character, are the one bringing about the happy ending that is only possible because of the player's effort.
A video game is supposed to be made for the player's indulgence and not the writer. But Genshin and so many gacha games and JRPGs make games whose purpose is indulging the writer at the player's expense. That is why the Traveler is kept weak. Why the writer's characters are the ones coming up with plans. Why the writer's characters are the ones resolving all the drama instead of yours.
Because the writer made the story for themself, not for you.
So whenever you see a story where the writer says your character was not real, or gets killed off, or it was all just a dream, that is because the writer is removing the taint of the player from the writer's story.
FGO just did this to cap off its final story and it was insulting beyond belief. But I'm apparently the only one who cared or saw it for what it was. Everyone else like "that's just artistic integrity".