I dont fully understand the newest AQ, please enlighten me
Columbina entered the Moon Gate, entered a strange place where golden energy guids her around and finds out the places she can visit are further and further in the past. Does the strange place stand still in time or also flow backwards?
Later she finds the 3 Moon Sisters and receives their blessing. She decides to split her soul from her body so her soul will be the golden energy that guides her through the strange place. That means time stands still in this place instead of going backwards, right? She entered the place and saw the energy and dicided later to leave her soul behind to guide her. If time goes backwards then she would leave her soul behind in the past, so she couldnt see the energy when she entered the place.
Her body became the moon light that fell on Nod-Krai for hundreds of years. I thought she would came back the moment it will hit Luonnotar because that is part of her soul?
I didnt understand at all what Sandrone was doing with the formula? Wasn\`t it a formula about the fate of the world? Why was it important to bring columbina back? And when they brought the Frost moon through the false sky Columbina was back instantly, so her soul and body already reunited?
Later she finds the 3 Moon Sisters and receives their blessing. She decides to split her soul from her body so her soul will be the golden energy that guides her through the strange place. That means time stands still in this place instead of going backwards, right? She entered the place and saw the energy and dicided later to leave her soul behind to guide her. If time goes backwards then she would leave her soul behind in the past, so she couldnt see the energy when she entered the place.
Her body became the moon light that fell on Nod-Krai for hundreds of years. I thought she would came back the moment it will hit Luonnotar because that is part of her soul?
I didnt understand at all what Sandrone was doing with the formula? Wasn\`t it a formula about the fate of the world? Why was it important to bring columbina back? And when they brought the Frost moon through the false sky Columbina was back instantly, so her soul and body already reunited?
Commentaires
The Moon's Reflection is outside of teyvat, and is not directly connected to Teyvat's linear timeline. Instead, in the Reflection, Time and Space are the same thing, so as Columbina walked through the Reflection she moved back in time(think of it as her just taking a walk down the timeline)
The Moon Prison holds Lunar Authority prisoner. Souls can enter and leave, and bodies can leave... in fragments, which is what happened to Rerir and why two of the moons shattered. Frostmoon didn't shatter because the authority was hidden there, but without her own body or authority, Canon just kinda fades away.
She met Rerir first because he was the most recent to enter the space, then Tholindis, then the Moon Goddesses back at the very beginning.
The Goddesses gave their authority to Columbina, who hid it inside the Frost Moon, and then left the prison(and died, RIP)
Columbina dissolved her body into Kuuvahki and scattered it across Nod Krai. Because she traveled back to the moon goddesses point in the timeline, that's when Kuuvahki first appeared, thousands of years ago.
She hid her authority in the Frost Moon, but the Heavenly Principles moved it outside the false sky, so she couldn't access it.
And her soul, of course, was waiting in the Moon Prison, except for Luonnatar's fragment.
Sandrone's calculations allowed Varka, Arlecchino, and Nicole to drag the frost moon down through the hole in the false sky. When it breached Teyvat's border, Columbina's body(kuuvahki), authority(frost moon), and her soul(Luonnatar) were all in the same place, which allowed her to escape the moon prison AND immediately regain her full power to avoid dying like the other moon goddesses.
Hope that makes sense?
The physical point in the prison just determines where you are in Teyvat-time, so it looks weird to people who aren't in the moon prison
But wasn't Sandrone's formula from Rene originally and was about the fate of the world? Or did she just talk about it and used another formula to calculate?
But if I'm being honest with you: I also have no clue on what *exactly* her formula was calculating for. They completely glossed over the specifics in the AQ. We *do* know that after the formula completed, they dragged down the Frost Moon through the False Sky, so it was directly related to that somehow
Kinda like movie characters whose only job is to tell the MC how much time is left lol
Didn't formula get to 90% and get completed after the moon is dragged down? Not they dragged the moon after the formula completed.
Basically, Sandrone wanted to solve for X. X = Columbina's Rebirth. With the variables currently present in the World, only 90% of the Formula could be solved. To solve that final 10%, an external variable was needed: The Frost Moon.
>"I know where potential variables within the world come from... So, what about the moons? Are there any variables there?"
The Formula's progress was based on the current variables present in the world and their placement. As things progressed, more conditions of the Formula would be met, alonging it to progress. Notice how the Formula stops at 90%, then jumps up when the Moon starts to fall down. Sandrone states that the Formula could take them to 90%, and bringing the Frost Moon down was required for the final 10%.
>"Sandrone: My formula can get us 90% of the way. It will connect you to Columbina. Then, I will bring the formula's output to the Traveler's side. For the last 10%... Do whatever it takes, just bring the moon down."
Aether was a necessary variable in the formula, as was his connection to Columbina, his presence was needed for the Formula's completion. That's why Sandrone sacrificed herself so that he could keep going. Part of the Formula also required for Dottore to be stalled for a certain amount of time to allow for the perfect time for the Frost Moon to come down.
The Formula would constantly update itself with every single event that would occur, as well as take into account time. The closer to 100% it was, the closer we were to the required conditions for Columbina's revival.
I probably could've worded that better, but yeah, I'm pretty sure this is how the World-Formula works.
When she scans the moons and keep finding 3 of them, I think that's where she understood that the frost moon had the trilune authority, right?
That's when she got that she would need to bring the moon closer because the frost moon held all 3 moons together.
Or am I wrong?
She realized the Moon itself was required in order for Columbina to be reborn. Without it, the Formula would only ever be 90% complete (meaning everything currently within the World was only sufficient for 90% of the formula). When inputting the Moon into the equation, that's what allowed the Formula to be completed, meaning that they needed to bring down the Moon into Teyvat to allow for Columbina to be revived.
The World-Formula is used to predict fate, so if you want a certain fate, you just input certain variables and you can, in theory, change fate to whatever you want. That's what effectively happened. Hopefully that makes sense, I know it's a bit abstract and I'm bad at explaining.
Is the calculation made to change fate, or to reach certain fate, though? Maybe they used it to change due to the descender i guess
Rene created and used the World-Formula to predict the World's fate, which is how he realized the world was doomed.
Sandrone effectively changes the Formula in order for it to reach a certain fate (Columbina coming back), rather than it only being capable of predicting fate. She does this by combing Rene's Formula with Alain's mathematical equations with Albedo's Alchemy. This resulted in an exceeding complex formula that could be used to determine whether certain fates were possible (constantly running different scenarios and seeing if they led to or away from the fate you wanted), which is why she needed so much Computing Power. The only way to change an impossible fate (like Columbina coming back) is to introduce "variables" (like descenders or anything from outside the world). Columbina's revival was impossible without the Frost Moon, which counted as a variable since it lay outside the world of Teyvat.
It's like a math problem. 2 + 2 will always equal 4. But if you bring in a new variable, the problem changes. Throw in 3 and now the result is 7.
Aether was always factored into the equation, and even then it could only be 90% completed. So they needed another variable. She was able to deduce that the Frost Moon was that missing variable. The Frost Moon coming into Teyvat was basically the same as adding a new number to an equation, allowing for the Formula to be completed.
Wonder if Rene could have shortened the clock if he had access to the variables lol
I'm just confused, with the Soul thing. So Columbina did a Jesus, she separated the Father (the authority), the son (the body turned into kuuvakhi) and the Holy spirit (the soul). The moon prison Nibelung did was to trap the moon goddesses soul, or lunar authority? That's why they can't get out. Columbina came along and they passed all authority to her which allowed them to go free. Columbina learned that in that prison the soul can survive without the body (via Tholindis) which gave her that idea, right?
Okay here's the part I'm confused. If the prison traps authority and soul, how did 1). columbina hide the authority in the moon if it couldn't get out in the first place? and 2). what happened to her soul? It got stuck in the moon prison, right. Luonnotar is only a FRAGMENT of her, so technically only a fragment of her should be revived?? How did Luonnotar manage to bypass and slingshot Columbina's soul from the moon prison when the three goddessses couldn't do it. I thought soul and authority can't escape the prison?
Thanks for letting me ask you!
Here's the conclusion I came to: Nibelung created the Moon's Reflection to trap beings with BOTH Lunar Authority and a Soul. A Soul on its own can leave and Lunar Authority on its own can leave, but a Soul with Lunar Authority can't leave. Notice how once the Moon Sisters lose their Authority, Columbina is able to teleport their Souls and Physical Bodies away. Their physical bodies are what become the Moon Marrows later on. Nibelung likely didn't think too deeply about the prison's requirements since he knew the Sisters would never abandon each other, plus he was preoccupied fighting against the Heavenly Principles.
>"Columbina: On my way here, I met an ordinary mortal who entered this place long before I did. Her body is long gone, but her soul remains. And before that, I encountered an old enemy whose entire soul survives here intact, while the power that once corrupted his body has faded away.
Canon: So perhaps this space is specifically designed to imprison divinity (soul) and authority, but not the physical body..."
When the Sisters lose their Lunar Authority, their Physical Bodies begin to waste away, as the Moon's Reflection was not made to hold mortal bodies. That's why Tholinis is in Soul Form (also something interesting to note: the reason Rerir's body is still in tact is most likely because he was revived using Kuuvahki, the power of the Moon Goddess, which makes his body no longer that of a mortal). Columbina indeed got the idea from the fact Tholindis' Soul was still around. If she hadn't teleported the Sisters out from the Moon's Reflection, their souls also would've stuck around right alongside her. But, thanks to her possessing the power of the Three Moons, she was able to teleport them out of the Reflection so that they could enjoy their last moments on Teyvat.
>Canon: ...We have one final request, Columbina. Could you use the three moons' power to send us back into the real world?
1. Now that that's all established, Columbina was able to separate her Trilunar Authority from herself and teleport it to the inside of the Frost Moon. She would not be able to leave so long as she had both a Soul and Lunar Authority (notice how "gravity" pulls her back every time she goes back in time). The prison was designed in a way that the Moon Sisters wouldn't be able to escape alive after all.
2. Her Soul remained in the Moon's Reflection, waiting for the right time to return. Souls can indeed escape the Prison, as we see with Rerir, it's not impossible. She simply had to give up her Lunar Authority to do it. But in order to leave, she needed Luonnotar. Luonnotar acted as Columbina's "anchor." She stated how she could feel a connection to Luonnotar, even from inside the Moon's Reflection, in the same way she could feel the Frost Moon from beyond the False Sky while in Teyvat. That "feeling" acted as a sort of connection.
>Columbina: Yes. I once left a portion of my soul in the future — one so small that this prison barely noticed anything. In this very moment, she can resonate with my soul across time. When the time comes, I believe that she can serve as an anchor to pull my soul from here back to the future reality...
Canon: ...Just as gravity connects the world to the moon.
Columbina: Exactly. In the future, where I came from, the moon has been cast beyond the false sky, but I can still feel that it is there. In a similar way, I can feel a connection to the soul fragment I left behind even now. My friends can use it to detect my presence.
When the Moon came down into Teyvat, the conditions for her revival were met. At this moment, Luonnotar resonated with Columbina's soul in the Moon's Reflection, "pulling" her out of the Moon's Reflection like gravity. It's like four separate magnets suddenly coming together. Traveler also served as an Anchor Point for Columbina, as symbolized by calling out her name right before she is reborn. That's also why Sandrone sacrificed herself to save him, he was a necessary variable for her return.
Basically, a Soul is capable of leaving the Moon's Reflection so long as it doesn't possess a Lunar Authority, but still needs a bit of help. Rerir left the Moon's Reflection with Dottore's help and Columbina left through resonating with Luonnotar.
Hopefully my rambling makes sense. Ask if I wasn't clear enough on something because I felt like this concept needed a bit of overexplaining.
I also read another possibility on this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Lore/comments/1qddzjq/i_made_a_timeline_diagram_to_clarify_what/
where Columbina didn't like "hide" the authority on the frostmoon, it's that she IS the frostmoon that's her manifestation so her having authority = the frostmoon also having authority. So why say this sentence to begin with?
Which just brings more questions tbh. Like so if the moons of the moonsisters were also brought down to Teyvat and they put a piece of their soul outside, would they have been able to escape the prison? So two possibilities:
1). Columbina separated her soul and authority to the frostmoon which allowed her to be revived in the future as long as they bring the moon down
2). Columbina's soul and authority never left the prison, she just waited to bring the moon down so both can leave
I was so confused about moon marrow= lunar authority, which is why I was like: how can Columbina have 3 moon authorities when Dottore already has it? When you explained their bodies became moon marrows I was like ohhhh. So basically a moon goddess:
- has a body (which will become the moon marrow if they die)
- has a moon
- has a soul
- has authority
Nibelung trapped all 3 in the prison. Dottore got the moon marrows which are very powerful, he can manipulate space, time and life-ish, BUT not all of it?? Like he cannot manipulate ALL of Teyvat's time and space because he doesn't have the authority to (because the authority was stuck in the prison until they gave all to Columbina present time).
So where was the authority all this time before Columbina entered the prison???
Sorry I'm rambling, it is such a paradox Genshin why . I feel like this is just A space and time with you electric boogaloo 2
They stated that the Moon Marrows are the remains of a Moon Goddess. Sandrone likens a Moon Marrow to a "power core" and Columbina compares it to a Gnosis, but for Moon Goddesses. Except unlike Gnoses, they're born with these powers. In the same vein, a Gnosis doesn't make an Archon an Archon. It's them possessing the "Throne/Authority" of their respective element that makes them an Archon. Ei gave up the Gnosis, but still is an Archon for example. Focalors gave her Authority to Neuvillette, eliminating the Throne of the Hydro Archon and giving him full Authority over Hydro itself. It also seems that the Moon Marrows possess some Authority over the Moons, but not Full Authority. That is how Dottore is able to draw upon the power of the Three Moons once he acquires the two Marrows and his artificial one.
So basically, Moon Marrows hold the remnants of a Moon Goddess' power after they die, but not the entirety. What kills a Moon Goddess is the shattering of her Moon, as we see with Sonnet:
>???: The moment the moon shattered, my body began to split apart piece by piece... like I was being cut into pieces by a thousand blunt blades. My thoughts scattered as the cold crept in... but I could not bear to fade away like that...
That is also why Canon didn't leave behind a Moon Marrow, as the Frost Moon was still in tact. She simply faded away due to the world's rejection of her.
When Columbina was granted Full Lunar Authority, she was given the remainders of their Power and full Authority. Dottore effectively tricked the world into giving him Full Authority, due to him possessing the Two of the Moon Marrows and a fake Frost Moon Marrow. When Columbina returns, however, they are both competing for the Trilunar Authority, as the World is now confusing the both of them for having Authority over the three Moons, allowing both of them to harness the power of the Trilune.
Though when I say Full Lunar Authority, I think how it works is she has 100% Frost Moon Authority, then 75% Iridescent and Eternal Authority. I think the remaining Authority lies in the respective Moon Marrows. Regardless of your Authority, you can draw upon the power of your respective Moon, which is how Dottore could still mess around with the fundamental rules of Teyvat.
The whole reason Dottore opens up the False Sky during battle is likely to directly draw upon the Frost Moon.
So yes, both Dottore and Columbina had Trilunar Authority by the end of the quest. Authority can seemingly be possessed by multiple people though. So long as you possess a Moon Marrow, you can draw upon the power of your respective Moon, but perhaps not to the full extent as a Goddess with Full Authority, like Columbina.
And don't worry about it, I've been rambling a lot myself, these concepts both make sense and also don't make as much sense because they didn't fully explain things. I'm not sure how to properly quantify partial authority vs. full authority, as we don't see Columbina manipulating time or any other laws to a greater extent than Dottore. I believe that's what they want us to interpret it as though. It wouldn't make sense if Arlecchino with the Iridescent Moon Marrow had the exact same amount of Authority over the Iridescent Moon as Columbina, for example.
"Variables"? Surely that can only mean one thing?
...Descenders?
Dottore likely captured (Traveler) because of (his/her) Descender status. But the three moons' authority comes from the world itself. Why would Dottore need anything beyond that?
...Where does this "variable" factor in? The world-formula calculates the fate of an entire world. Introducing a variable would therefore give us...
The moon itself is a variable because it was outside the world, beyond the false sky. That's why the World-Formula stopped at 90% until the Moon started coming down. Things outside of Teyvat's borders are considered variables.