Why is Game8 site so hated and KQM so praised?

I know KQM has a lot more in-depth combos for characters, but I am mainly talking about builds and teams.

I agree with 95% of Game8 tierlist and maybe 80-90% of their builds/teams. They are guides, you can adjust your builds and teams as you please after some experience with the character, but their starting point is a very strong start.

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KyrrithK2026-01-16 03:46

Game8 is more casual-focused, run by casual people that manage tons of similar sites, whereas KQM are as close to 'professional' players as we have, who really get into the detail and nitty-gritty of how the game functions. At a casual level, that last 10-20% that Game8 has wrong doesn't impact much, but for endgame you need to squeeze 100% out of your units to get good times.

Dalacul2026-01-16 04:15

Constantly doing abyss 12 in time + SO on 4th difficulty as just a Welkin buyer. Haven't seen some doing 5th SO with C0 units and no premium weapons.

My HIGHEST investment in a premium 5* is C1R1, followed by c0r1. Can I squeeze them more for a 5th difficulty SO?

KyrrithK2026-01-16 04:25

Potentially, Stygian is much more about the mechanics required and how to utilize them, especially for 5th and 6th difficulties. It depends a LOT on your teams, and the requirements. Sometimes you just might not have the mechanic they need, or a viable alternative.

For example, this patch the first boss needs a Lunar DPS or strong AoE, the second boss needs Electro (and ideally Hydro), and the third wants AoE Hydro. That's 3 teams that want Hydro app, one of the most valuable things in the game team-wise. It's certainly possible to brute force one of them with a strong unit, maybe your C1R1 if it's Arle or Skirk or someone else post-Fontaine. But it depends too much on the exact details.

lnfine2026-01-16 05:20

SO5 is defo doable c0r0. Depends on units available though.

Look at it that way: c0r0 Skork team could walk all over at least one SO5 boss per rotation so far, even if it's not Skork shill boss, and it's a well acknowledged fact.

Dalacul2026-01-16 09:43

Barely could reach boss half hp with Skirk(calamity) Furina(c0r1) Citlali (ttds) Escoffier. This should be my best team

lnfine2026-01-16 10:12

Which boss though?

Last SO5 (aka Fearless) I used Skork team for the Baptist.

Skork-Furina-Coffe-Shenhe, all C0, all 4-star weapons (Fountain craftable plus 3 favs). Could use Citlali too, but I need that one for the jump boss.

In all honestly your team lineup looks energy starved at the first glance actually.

Dalacul2026-01-16 17:28

Any boss. I couldn't beat any of SO5 bosses. Here is my character list, but you can ask about each one in particular if you have questions:

[https://prnt.sc/NPUNEGt9n\_WF](https://prnt.sc/NPUNEGt9n_WF)

lnfine2026-01-16 17:37

The question is simple - what's your full rotation length for the Skirk team? Assuming every character in the team uses both their skill and burst.

Dalacul2026-01-16 17:41

Furina EQ - Esco EQ - Citlali EQ N1 - Skirk tapE NA until 3 rifs, CA, NA until 2 rifts, Q, NA until effect expires

lnfine2026-01-16 18:26

No, how much time does it take you to complete the whole thing, including getting enough energy for the next rotation.

The only reasonable explanation for a 50% damage difference I can think of is rotation extension for one reason or another, but most likely due to ER issues.

Well, aside from talents.

Dalacul2026-01-16 18:33

all talents are level 10, except Furina Esco Citlali autoattack (for obvious reasons) and Skirk's whose autoattack level is 8.

21 seconds to complete the whole thing, but Furina has no burst for the next rotation. She bursts in the next one (3rd).

On dummy test I scored 75.3k for 30s with bursts available

Edit: 89.4k if Skirk full bursts before tapE

TrialByFyah2026-01-16 04:14

You said it yourself. KQM is a lot more technical and put together by people who actually bother to calculate and optimize for valuable guides that both casuals and veterans can understand.

SanicHegehag2026-01-16 04:29

For what it's worth, I hate them both.

Game8 has *okay* character guides and pretty bad Tierlists. They do have efficient walkthroughs if you get stuck on something, though.

KQM has good *generalist* guides, but get severely gimped by their low standards. All advice is given with poor artifact investment and C0/R0. This wouldn't be too much of an issue if people accepted it for what it is, but too many people cite KQM like some kind of Genshin bible.

KyrrithK2026-01-16 04:35

As others have said before, standards exist for a reason. If there were no standards, you'd get people on the new DPS dummy posting that their C0R1 Flins hits 200k DPS, and a new player pulls them and gets half that, just from a difference of artifact quality and gameplay optimization. (Numbers not exact ofc)

Do we rate Flins as a 200k DPS because that's what one person got, or 100k because that's what someone else got? Do we have to collate 100 different Flins C0R1 teams' DPS to find an average and use that?

SanicHegehag2026-01-16 05:00

So why have poor standards?

Someone who is super casual isn't going to be looking for guides. They'll just slap on whatever they have or what the game suggests. If someone is researching a character, it's more likely that they're actually invested in a character.

A guide and "DPS Ranking" that assumes low artifact quality, C0 weapons, and zero crowns is pretty worthless.

I get the debate of "having standards" vs "having no standards", but *having bad standards* isn't the solution.

lnfine2026-01-16 05:35

The standards are mostly fine though. There's a caveat in the allowed substad distribution mechanic that punishes characters that can use multiple substats, but this bias also ironically persists in general population (where character not needing a particular stat is treated as a boon rather than a curse it actually is).

Nolifers on social media have a cognitive bias on what reasonable account looks like and forget what it takes to get one.

In all actuality you will need a couple of years just to get a fresh account even to KQM standards. Back in 1.X I got my first 5-star electro goblet (not minding the set and substats) about 6 month into the game, way past 36starring abyss.

You'd think these days people get it better with the artifact crafting and rerolling, but no. You don't have accumulated artifact exp to craft anything. You will be starving for exp even after a year, even with exp bottles being handed out everywhere.

KQM standards are fine, it's just their initial target audience had 3 or 4 years to grow extra account strength after their inception.

Rather than saying KQMs are bad, I'd say they now need tiers. And probably a more complex substat distribution mechanism.

LiDragonLo2026-01-16 08:52

Depending on rng, u can get above kqm in a few months for a team

lnfine2026-01-16 09:28

You kind of can (I kind of did for some characters), but the issue is not just RNG, it's resource starvation. Besides artifacts you also need to level characters and find weapons. You can hyperfocus one character, but at the expense of the rest of your team being dressed in rags. My Hu Tao team in early 2.X was running 60/70 XQ on exile/scholar mix with a 3-star sword for example (I myself was playing since 1.0). I could build XQ properly, but at the expense of someone else, and I still wouldn't be able to conjure a weapon out of thin air.

And with artifacts it's even more annoying because artifact XP is an account wide property accumulated over time.

SanicHegehag2026-01-16 13:18

From my experience, it takes about 4-6 weeks to beat KQM Standards. This isn't even bragging about some kind of god tier luck. This is across dozens of characters I've built, and is fairly consistent. A few *passable* pieces and and off set Goblet is usually enough.

In fact, the standard is so low, it's often possible to beat KQM damage *with the wrong set entirely* if you have good Substats.

There's a reason people think Marechusse Hunter is good on Skirk or that Gladiator is good on Arlecchino. Ar bad investment, they're reasonably close. If you're comparing them to low investment versions of their BIS, it appears even closer. For people who actually *Main* these characters, the difference is fairly significant, though.

KyrrithK2026-01-16 05:37

Fair, I think especially with Elixirs and Feathers now the standards could be improved. Also just the fact that the game has been around for 5 years, people have had time to farm better sets than at launch. As you say, people who are serious enough to care will have higher standards.

The problem is just the RNG of artifact farming then. If the 'standard' assumes 500% RV artifacts, I can tell you many of my characters don't have that much average RV, and if having consistently 'good' artifacts is the 'standard', people will start to feel like it's too high of a standard, and 'I can't get the sheet DPS, but I'm playing well'.

Edit: I guess the other logic is opportunity cost, you can only get so many crowns for example. If people hear 10 = standard, again they might feel the standard is inaccesable.

Hopefully the DPS Dummy ends up a positive infuence, and people realize that they're way above or way below the standard, and we maybe get some kinda rework. Instead of just people getting upset by seeing 200k Mavuika vs their 60k Mavuika gameplay that can't clear.

SoC1752026-01-16 08:09

>So why have poor standards?

Because that's how the average player ticks?

When I read "dash/animation cancel" I immediately zone out. Never done, never will.

Not for my HuTao, not for my Mavuika and won't do that crap. I just want to casually press buttons and see numbers flash and mobs die the way developers intended those animation to work.

I want to turn my brain of playing a chill beer'n'prezels game, not playing a piano sonata

I even ignore the substat recommendations. Tell me which set and what should be the 3 main stats, that's enough for me. Columbina should get 4p Moon with HP/HP/Crit? Thanks and no, I don't need to know anything else. Just let me slap together the first 5 artifacts that meet this criteria, lvl them to 20 and never look back,. Another character build and done.

Berry_Sprout2026-01-16 22:52

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Dalacul2026-01-16 23:04

What is SS tier on gsme8 without actually being SS?

Berry_Sprout2026-01-17 00:54

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Dalacul2026-01-17 11:04

Huh? Ofc not, but the site is not telling you that. They have teams listed for every character. Someone must be dumb to see 2 characters in ss tier and think they fit together