The way I interpreted it, Columbina needed 3 things to be reborn:
- Her soul, which she left a part of with Luonnotar
- Her body, Kuuvahki, and I assumed the World Formula was required to figure out how to 're-assemble' her body from all the Kuuvahki across Nod Krai
- Her Lunar authority, which she hid in the Frost Moon, hence the need to bring it into Teyvat so it was accessible
To be honest, the second two seemed very vauge. Like, wasn't the whole point of the prison to contain their Lunar authority, so how did Columbina smuggle it out after getting it from the sisters? And yeah, the World Formula was to bring Columbina back, but how does that connect to calculating the fate of the world?
Maybe after a rewatch I'll pick up the finer details.
DraconPern2026-01-16 14:32
My take. The prison trapped only living beings and souls. The lunar authority is like... a digital key, it can be transferred. She deduced that if she died, her body transformed(atomized?) into kuuvahki can be send out of the prison. She knows this will work in the future because she realized kuuvahki is actually her body/power after the moon sister said, "isn't this just your power?".
Adomics2026-01-16 20:20
Prison actually contains souls, not authority, or else Rerir and Tholindis wouldn't be trapped here at all. As to why Nibelung did that, well, he used their authority in war, so, I guess it wasn't designed to contain authority, but to give it to him, when he needs it, or something. Maybe even to send it to the moons, which were weapons themselves.
Neospanner2026-01-16 14:28
To be honest, I feel as though this was an example of writers trying to write people smarter than they are - both in this instance and also in the original Narzissenkreutz Ordo storyline.
In the original Ordo storyline, the World Formula was basically accomplishing the same thing as divination, except through math and science - it could be used to foresee the unavoidable fate of the world. The formula also calculated what it would take to avoid that unavoidable fate - essentially, the power that defines a Descender. The power of Reason.
It was essentially science-flavored magic as far as the audience is concerned. We have to take it on faith that Rene's calculations were founded on solid data and reasonable conclusions.
As for the role of the World Formula in the Nod-Krai Archon Quests - I feel as though the writers have been bending over backwards to make it clear to the audience that Sandrone is connected to the players involved in the Narzissenkreutz Ordo, and involving the World Formula was another way to do so.
I think we can all agree that a scientific procedure that can basically flawlessly predict the future is pretty impressive, but it's only good for seeing outcomes, not changing them or bringing them about. The other part of the formula - the theoretical creation of a Descender - could be more useful, but there's no real evidence that it was used for that here.
So, we as the audience need to take it on faith that Sandrone is genius enough to leverage the World Formula to be useful in this situation. Somehow. The real goal was to set up a stock Shounen anime situation where the heroes need to hold off the overwhelmingly powerful villain long enough for a key player to prep something that takes a long time to set up. They did this in Dragonball like three times per story arc. :P
Ravenwolf222026-01-16 14:38
>I think we can all agree that a scientific procedure that can basically flawlessly predict the future is pretty impressive, but it's only good for seeing outcomes, not changing them or bringing them about.
yeah this is basically my question. I have no problems with the world formular beeing able to predict the future/fate.
But even if you know the future/fate, how do you change/influence/use it to bring down the moon? Or did they use it to assemble the kuuvaki for columbinas body?
And this "90%" part also adds confusion. Did the World formular pull the moon 90% of the way?
Sunsettia2026-01-16 16:17
It's stated that you are able to change fate if you have a "variable" (i.e. us, thye Descender), which is what Sandrone has been calling us since the end of Natlan.
The whole pulling down part was seemingly enabled by Nicole, one of the few remaining angels. This probably doesn't come as a surprise considering the fragments of the Eternal Moon was pulled down by the Fatui. They built the Kuuvahki Experimental Design Bureau on top of some of these fragments.
>And this "90%" part also adds confusion. Did the World formular pull the moon 90% of the way?
From what Sandrone mentioned, it's up to 90%, and requires the Frost Moon to be pulled down before it can proceed with the remaining 10%. So no, Nicole and gang did it to complete the formula.
Ravenwolf222026-01-16 16:31
So did Sandrone manipulate fate? I still don't get what the formula does once it reaches 100%.
The moon was pulled down by Nicole, Varka and Arle. Kuuvaki is the body and Luonotar was the soul. What did the formula do?
DI3S_IRAE2026-01-16 17:20
The formula was just showing progress, not doing anything special, wasn't it?
She made all the calculations to make Columbina to be reborn possible, and included a variable of the descender to make it happen.
They had all components they needed including the moon (which sandrone discovered was the trilune authority), it just needed to get inside the fake sky to unite divinity with soul and body.
The formula going up to 90% was not doing anything, but just showing progress, like a thermometer showing the temperature going up?
The whole thing is that Sandrone was able to calculate a way to make it happen and the formula percentage was showing how close to completion it was.
When it reached 90%, it meant that they had everything in place for it to happen. That's when they pulled the last component to finish it.
Of course, I still don't understand well why Pulonia had to be close to the traveler specifically, so it may prove that what I said is wrong and it was actually doing something too. Maybe it had to be this way because of other magics including alchemy, so the calculations had to be near the descender?
Ravenwolf222026-01-16 17:36
If the Formular was doing nothing special Wanderer would not had to offer his Core and risk death to calculate it. So it has to calculate something important.
All i can deduce from the cutscene and dialogue is that the Formular:
\- calculates the fate of the world, and constructs a framework of rules
\- for the last 10% the moon needs to be close.
\- output is given to the traveler
\- connects us to Columbina
\-
The problem now is now:
Knowing the future -> ??? -> Connecting us to Columbina
Some people are explaining it with, because the traveler is a descender he is a variable that can change fate. And once the Formulars Output reached the traveler he/she knew what to do to bring columbina back. But if this is the case they did a really bad job at showing it. Columbina just appeared once the Formular reached 100%
Before the battle with Dottore Sandrone said its to complicated to explain all of it and takes to long, just know that for columbina to be back it has to reach 100%
DI3S_IRAE2026-01-16 17:41
Yeah, that's why I mentioned it was showing the predictions of the calculation, not exactly "making things happen".
Columbina showing up at 100% was the result of the calculation, how I see it, not that something else had to be done. I think the traveler being a variable is the mesns that they were the only one that could stall everything to make it all possible, because without the traveler, the Dottore wouldn't allow it to happen thus the calculation would never reach this specific result?
Vaiolette-Westover2026-01-16 20:41
Wanderer was needed for them to make the new formula that incorporates a variable along with a desired result.
It's but the same formula Renee used. Sandrone remade it, via wanderer's calculations. The progress bar was showing the actual solution that the new formula which Sandrone created (via constraining between extremes and adding a variable as well as solution) and it's progress of completion.
Sandrone's formula is infinitely more complex than the world formula Rene used but it was developed on that original concept.
As for why pulonia needed to complete it, it is likely a red herring for Dottore.
Sunsettia2026-01-17 06:32
Yup, without the formula, they wouldn't know they needed to pull the moon down for Columbina to revive.
Vaiolette-Westover2026-01-17 09:52
They would, the formula at various percentages of completion would've kept generating items needed for the solution.
The story literally shows us what those breakpoints are when she was first drafting it.
Vaiolette-Westover2026-01-16 20:35
The world formula progress bar is a red herring for Dottore to think he had more time along with pulonia.
It at the point that Sandrone entered the Battle would've already told her that she needed to join the fight and die and pull down the moon.
Vaiolette-Westover2026-01-16 20:34
The world formula didn't bring down the moon, Nicole, arlecchino and Varka did.
Sunsettia2026-01-16 16:11
I think a lot of it is honestly technobabble to make it sound deep, I do think it's cool that they actually wrapped up the other side of Narzissenkreuz Ordo's story. Two geniuses went on their own way to save the world in their own ways, but what ended up really saving the world was the combination of their knowledge and efforts (world formula + Pulonia) + I guess a Descender randomly showing up.
Ann, Seymour and company's story sort of concluded well (though I hope to see them again), but Rene and Alain's stories didn't really feel like it ended. It was a nice touch to connect everything together here.
And then there's Jakob who's at god knows where lol. 5th descender maybe?
Vaiolette-Westover2026-01-16 20:51
They explain clearly that Sandrone needed the computing power to create and run a new formula based on rene's.
Sunsettia2026-01-17 01:15
Yep. Needed everyone's efforts, which sort of explains why they couldn't do it themselves I guess.
Ravenwolf222026-01-16 16:47
>So, we as the audience need to take it on faith that Sandrone is genius enough to leverage the World Formula to be useful in this situation
I would get it if the World formular is some kind of "future vision". Like how Dr. Strange use it in infinity war to see the "Winning outcome". But the formular was only completed during the fight.
And in the Cutscene Sandrone said something about the Formular connecting us with columbina. And transfering the connection to the traveler. But it didn't explain how. My only explanation is that the machine that sandrone build is a beacon for Columbinas Body, soul and Authority. But what this has to do with fate,,,
Old_Square_91002026-01-16 17:37
So, in the end, Sandrone's role was to "ascertain" that its possible to win against Dottore if they crush the moon down into the false sky and have the traveler (the descender) still a player in the battle?
I guess this is why she took the fatal blow for the traveler, she knew they couldn't win without him.
Vaiolette-Westover2026-01-16 20:50
No. They made it very clear that Sandrone re wrote the formula to incorporate a variable to achieve a desired result. That's what she needed the computational power for because a variable turns the formula from a linear prediction model into an infinite possibilities model.
That's what Dottore commented on her optimizing the formula.
The world formula Sandrone made is not the same as the original one and is exponentially more complex.
The progress bar shows the progress of columbina returning, Sandrone would've known what's needed, like in algebra, long before she showed up.
The formula simplified would've been moon +dottore + dead sandrone +variable +??= Columbina rebirth
Arsyl262026-01-16 15:23
i think everything in the teyvat, including the moon was bound to fate and law of teyvat. the only exception are the descenders. that why descender has the power to change others’ fate, as mentioned by the sibling to the traveler, ‘i know you like to change fate, but this time i will not allow it’ (in natlan, i think?)
the world formula calculate how fate need to be changed to bring down frost moon, and later give the formula to traveler to execute them.
GraveXNull2026-01-16 19:17
It's one of those stories where if you explain it fancy enough, everything is possible.
Vaiolette-Westover2026-01-16 20:33
The world formula calculated Fate and what will happen in the future, it would've calculated what when and where the event input will occur.
In this case the 100% is arbitrary, it's a progress bar for columbina's return time rather than the formula completion time. It's a red herring to throw off Dottore.
It's also a brand new formula Sandrone made based on the original formula. That's what the processing power was for.
The solution likely for Sandrone that the moon will be pulled down to Teyvat and she will die, that's why she voluntarily deactivated her self preservation mechanics so she can die and fall in with Fate as she understands that she can't change it.
As for where the traveler being the variable comes in, the original world formula Sandrone calculated likely didn't have columbina coming back at exactly that time if at all and the computation was for Sandrone to be able to incorporate a variable into it to see how the variable can change events instead and it told Sandrone that she needed to die in this recalculated solution.
Lelouch02022026-01-17 01:16
I had similar questions as you after completing this portion of the AQ, but after reading some of the comments in this thread. I think I understand it a little better.
My original understanding was that the progress bar that Sandrone gives us represented the time required for her to 'solve' the world formula to devise the plan that would resurrect Columbina but this doesn't make much sense as you've pointed out.
Instead, I now choose to think of the progress bar as representing the actual 'event' that Columbina is resurrected. Sandrone's goal in solving the world formula is to identify the events that must take place in order for Columbina to return, I think her death is one of these events. That's why she suggests that she can only take them 90% of the way, (Maybe cause every possibility that she computes leads to her death and the 'written' solution ends after having made 90% progress),
The remaining 10% must come from the traveler i.e. someone who can change fate. Through the traveler's influence on the events of Nod-Krai as the 'Descender' variable, Nicole, Varka and Arle help provide the last 10% by pulling the moon through.
FWIW, I'm not an expert on Genshin lore. I'm only trying to make sense of the story much like you are.
Commentaires
- Her soul, which she left a part of with Luonnotar
- Her body, Kuuvahki, and I assumed the World Formula was required to figure out how to 're-assemble' her body from all the Kuuvahki across Nod Krai
- Her Lunar authority, which she hid in the Frost Moon, hence the need to bring it into Teyvat so it was accessible
To be honest, the second two seemed very vauge. Like, wasn't the whole point of the prison to contain their Lunar authority, so how did Columbina smuggle it out after getting it from the sisters? And yeah, the World Formula was to bring Columbina back, but how does that connect to calculating the fate of the world?
Maybe after a rewatch I'll pick up the finer details.
In the original Ordo storyline, the World Formula was basically accomplishing the same thing as divination, except through math and science - it could be used to foresee the unavoidable fate of the world. The formula also calculated what it would take to avoid that unavoidable fate - essentially, the power that defines a Descender. The power of Reason.
It was essentially science-flavored magic as far as the audience is concerned. We have to take it on faith that Rene's calculations were founded on solid data and reasonable conclusions.
As for the role of the World Formula in the Nod-Krai Archon Quests - I feel as though the writers have been bending over backwards to make it clear to the audience that Sandrone is connected to the players involved in the Narzissenkreutz Ordo, and involving the World Formula was another way to do so.
I think we can all agree that a scientific procedure that can basically flawlessly predict the future is pretty impressive, but it's only good for seeing outcomes, not changing them or bringing them about. The other part of the formula - the theoretical creation of a Descender - could be more useful, but there's no real evidence that it was used for that here.
So, we as the audience need to take it on faith that Sandrone is genius enough to leverage the World Formula to be useful in this situation. Somehow. The real goal was to set up a stock Shounen anime situation where the heroes need to hold off the overwhelmingly powerful villain long enough for a key player to prep something that takes a long time to set up. They did this in Dragonball like three times per story arc. :P
yeah this is basically my question. I have no problems with the world formular beeing able to predict the future/fate.
But even if you know the future/fate, how do you change/influence/use it to bring down the moon? Or did they use it to assemble the kuuvaki for columbinas body?
And this "90%" part also adds confusion. Did the World formular pull the moon 90% of the way?
The whole pulling down part was seemingly enabled by Nicole, one of the few remaining angels. This probably doesn't come as a surprise considering the fragments of the Eternal Moon was pulled down by the Fatui. They built the Kuuvahki Experimental Design Bureau on top of some of these fragments.
>And this "90%" part also adds confusion. Did the World formular pull the moon 90% of the way?
From what Sandrone mentioned, it's up to 90%, and requires the Frost Moon to be pulled down before it can proceed with the remaining 10%. So no, Nicole and gang did it to complete the formula.
The moon was pulled down by Nicole, Varka and Arle. Kuuvaki is the body and Luonotar was the soul. What did the formula do?
She made all the calculations to make Columbina to be reborn possible, and included a variable of the descender to make it happen.
They had all components they needed including the moon (which sandrone discovered was the trilune authority), it just needed to get inside the fake sky to unite divinity with soul and body.
The formula going up to 90% was not doing anything, but just showing progress, like a thermometer showing the temperature going up?
The whole thing is that Sandrone was able to calculate a way to make it happen and the formula percentage was showing how close to completion it was.
When it reached 90%, it meant that they had everything in place for it to happen. That's when they pulled the last component to finish it.
Of course, I still don't understand well why Pulonia had to be close to the traveler specifically, so it may prove that what I said is wrong and it was actually doing something too. Maybe it had to be this way because of other magics including alchemy, so the calculations had to be near the descender?
All i can deduce from the cutscene and dialogue is that the Formular:
\- calculates the fate of the world, and constructs a framework of rules
\- for the last 10% the moon needs to be close.
\- output is given to the traveler
\- connects us to Columbina
\-
The problem now is now:
Knowing the future -> ??? -> Connecting us to Columbina
Some people are explaining it with, because the traveler is a descender he is a variable that can change fate. And once the Formulars Output reached the traveler he/she knew what to do to bring columbina back. But if this is the case they did a really bad job at showing it. Columbina just appeared once the Formular reached 100%
Before the battle with Dottore Sandrone said its to complicated to explain all of it and takes to long, just know that for columbina to be back it has to reach 100%
Columbina showing up at 100% was the result of the calculation, how I see it, not that something else had to be done. I think the traveler being a variable is the mesns that they were the only one that could stall everything to make it all possible, because without the traveler, the Dottore wouldn't allow it to happen thus the calculation would never reach this specific result?
It's but the same formula Renee used. Sandrone remade it, via wanderer's calculations. The progress bar was showing the actual solution that the new formula which Sandrone created (via constraining between extremes and adding a variable as well as solution) and it's progress of completion.
Sandrone's formula is infinitely more complex than the world formula Rene used but it was developed on that original concept.
As for why pulonia needed to complete it, it is likely a red herring for Dottore.
The story literally shows us what those breakpoints are when she was first drafting it.
It at the point that Sandrone entered the Battle would've already told her that she needed to join the fight and die and pull down the moon.
Ann, Seymour and company's story sort of concluded well (though I hope to see them again), but Rene and Alain's stories didn't really feel like it ended. It was a nice touch to connect everything together here.
And then there's Jakob who's at god knows where lol. 5th descender maybe?
I would get it if the World formular is some kind of "future vision". Like how Dr. Strange use it in infinity war to see the "Winning outcome". But the formular was only completed during the fight.
And in the Cutscene Sandrone said something about the Formular connecting us with columbina. And transfering the connection to the traveler. But it didn't explain how. My only explanation is that the machine that sandrone build is a beacon for Columbinas Body, soul and Authority. But what this has to do with fate,,,
I guess this is why she took the fatal blow for the traveler, she knew they couldn't win without him.
That's what Dottore commented on her optimizing the formula.
The world formula Sandrone made is not the same as the original one and is exponentially more complex.
The progress bar shows the progress of columbina returning, Sandrone would've known what's needed, like in algebra, long before she showed up.
The formula simplified would've been moon +dottore + dead sandrone +variable +??= Columbina rebirth
the world formula calculate how fate need to be changed to bring down frost moon, and later give the formula to traveler to execute them.
In this case the 100% is arbitrary, it's a progress bar for columbina's return time rather than the formula completion time. It's a red herring to throw off Dottore.
It's also a brand new formula Sandrone made based on the original formula. That's what the processing power was for.
The solution likely for Sandrone that the moon will be pulled down to Teyvat and she will die, that's why she voluntarily deactivated her self preservation mechanics so she can die and fall in with Fate as she understands that she can't change it.
As for where the traveler being the variable comes in, the original world formula Sandrone calculated likely didn't have columbina coming back at exactly that time if at all and the computation was for Sandrone to be able to incorporate a variable into it to see how the variable can change events instead and it told Sandrone that she needed to die in this recalculated solution.
My original understanding was that the progress bar that Sandrone gives us represented the time required for her to 'solve' the world formula to devise the plan that would resurrect Columbina but this doesn't make much sense as you've pointed out.
Instead, I now choose to think of the progress bar as representing the actual 'event' that Columbina is resurrected. Sandrone's goal in solving the world formula is to identify the events that must take place in order for Columbina to return, I think her death is one of these events. That's why she suggests that she can only take them 90% of the way, (Maybe cause every possibility that she computes leads to her death and the 'written' solution ends after having made 90% progress),
The remaining 10% must come from the traveler i.e. someone who can change fate. Through the traveler's influence on the events of Nod-Krai as the 'Descender' variable, Nicole, Varka and Arle help provide the last 10% by pulling the moon through.
FWIW, I'm not an expert on Genshin lore. I'm only trying to make sense of the story much like you are.