(Spoiler) How was Pre-Nod Krai Dottore so strong?
Is this just something explained in books or something? How did Dottore - a completely normal human expelled from Sumeru University for Human Experimentation and other horrible acts - somehow become more powerful than a Descendent of the Iridescent Moon with some crazy Crimson Moon curse, a 1000 year old Drake in Mondstadt, a doll that was meant to be the new vessel for an Archon, an actual Archon who is not at full power but did have her Gnosis and Dendro Authority, and a severely nerfed Moon Goddess?
Like Capitano being 1st is fine because Khaenrians with any kind of combat training have been consistently shown to be ridiculously powerful in modern day Teyvat, but we literally don't have any explanation for Dottore.
We know he used to experiment with god's remains, and that he somehow split himself into some 20~ clones after studying Scara but I'm missing the part where that makes him strong enough to rival Teyvat's gods...
Honestly for you Dottore fans, this gaping void of a lack of explanation is probably the best indication the devs are not done with Dottore.
Like Capitano being 1st is fine because Khaenrians with any kind of combat training have been consistently shown to be ridiculously powerful in modern day Teyvat, but we literally don't have any explanation for Dottore.
We know he used to experiment with god's remains, and that he somehow split himself into some 20~ clones after studying Scara but I'm missing the part where that makes him strong enough to rival Teyvat's gods...
Honestly for you Dottore fans, this gaping void of a lack of explanation is probably the best indication the devs are not done with Dottore.
Commentaires
Don't you think this might have sped some things up?
He is a researcher. He had 2 gnoses and access to knowledge, he probably needed time to capitalize on those things. Having multiple clones speed that process up.
>He had 2 gnoses
Nope...
I don't know how to get you to understand I'm asking for people that actually read all the readables in the game to inform me how he got that strong, not your fan theory headcanon based on what we know about him.
Capitano is consistent with others of Khaenriah at his social standing or higher being that strong today.
Arle has a crazy strong bloodline and a unique powerful curse
Childe fell into the Abyss and obtained the ability to transform with Foul Legacy, and was also trained by Skirk who was trained by one of the 5 Sinners
Sandrome is a automaton created by one of if not the greatest minds in Fontaine, armed with the research and drive to improve herself like Iron Man in the MCU
Columbina was literally a nerfed Goddess.
Scara was created by a god using God Tree materials
Signora was the Crimson Witch of Flames armed with a Delusion ontop
All we have for Dottore is "he smart" and "he human experiment" and "he clone self". None of these are the same as the above. They aren't any reasonings.
\>proceeds to headcanon why Capitano is strong
You need to separate logical liability with whatever powerscaling bullshit your brain is doing. Dottore didn't arm wrestle the NK cast or suplex Varka. He harnessed moon marrows and tore the fake sky, these are things that are not "strength" related. If I invent a gun and shoot you in the face it is not because I trained under a waterfall, it is because I took my time to invent a fucking gun.
My suggestion to you is to stop immersing yourself in the anime or superhero media you are watching because your reality seems to be slipping away.
That isn't headcanon it's literally in the game? What?
>You need to separate logical liability with whatever powerscaling bullshit your brain is doing. Dottore didn't arm wrestle the NK cast or suplex Varka. He harnessed moon marrows and tore the fake sky, these are things that are not "strength" related. If I invent a gun and shoot you in the face it is not because I trained under a waterfall, it is because I took my time to invent a fucking gun.
Where did any of this come from even and how is it relevant to anything here... What are you on, dude?
>My suggestion to you is to stop immersing yourself in the anime or superhero media you are watching because your reality seems to be slipping away.
You say this as if you did not just project your own reality onto mine , I have no idea where you pulled anything from with this response, you sound nuts and it seems like your feelings are hurt or something, take some time off reddit or get some therapy, idk yikes.
And strength can be in the brain as well which dottore is.
Refer to my earlier reply about Capitano, his strength is perfectly explained.
>And strength can be in the brain as well which dottore is.
Idk why everyone here thinks this but it isnt even a matter of could he make himself stronger with his intelligence, it's that the game doesn't say he did at all anywhere, it's all made up fan theory and I was asking for lore.
This feels like headcanon but I'm asking for legitimate lore.
Smart ✅
Researcher ✅
Big Research Lab ✅
Research is being funded by an Archon ✅
Freedom ✅
Sell information and get some gnosis as payment ✅ 😂
So what are you saying that dottore should not this powerful? Not to mention when he eliminate all of his clone he gain their intelligence. He is super smart brooo
Meanwhile Dottore created his own marrow to gain power from the moons without Teyvat rejecting it, make him so powerful.
Still didn't get it.???
By combining all three marrows (Eternal, Iridescent, and his ARTIFICIAL ONE) in a device called the "Trilune," Dottore gained immense power over space and time.
still don't get it .. ?
Edit : Creating Artificial moon marrow is not normal researcher can create! evidence that he is so genius + eternal moon marrow + iridescent moon marrow is equal to godhood.
So in short explanation
Artificial moon marrow (HIMSELF, DOTTORE) , ETERNAL MOON (LET SAY COLUMBINA HERSELF) , IRIDESCENT MOON MARROW (WHO HOLDS IT? YES ITS ARLECCHINO) she said it is a source of her power
So dottore+columbina+arlecchino= his power ofcourse it's godhood.
Also it is STATED on the NOD KRAI QUEST that a moon marrow can compare to a gnosis of archons. Who is the archon does still have a intact gnosis ... Hmm mavuika right..
Then imagine mavuika multiply by 3 + having a genius mind.
Also doctor will not become #2 of fatui harbinger if is he is weak.
MAAN DON'T BURN YOURSELF. You clearly didn't read the nod krai quest.
Why delete ? Feel shame now?
Based on that he made delusions, cure for elizar, treatment for abyssal damage etc.
"I believe I have to taste the carcass of old gods to ascend like those animals..."
*looks at said carcass*
"Ahem yeah, better create a new me to do that... For science"
So I don't see it as a explanation for his absurd level of strength, but it could be a reason why he obtained virtual immortality.
Tartaglia is one of the lowest ranks despite being one of the strongest trained fighters since Capitano (granted he's also like the only normal guy amongst them). Dottore most definitely modified his body with tons of tech and bio-engineering.
The other part is that he only went up against the weakest gods in terms of strength; Nahida is the god of wisdom (and physically a child), while Columbina is stated multiple times to be extremely weakened.
As for Arlecchino, Durin, and Wanderer: by the time they actually started fighting Dottore he already possessed at least 2 Moon Marrows, more power than any other of them could handle. Durin is still figuring out how to control his power, Arlecchino has ample reason to not go all out because the more she overexerts herself the more she permanently corrupts her body, and Wanderer was completely unable to fight for the most part.
There's no "void" of explanation, by the time the Nod-Krai party started fighting Dottore he was at 3 Moon Marrows almost the entire time and practically a god. The devs are just as done with Dottore as they're done with Signora (because having Dottore survive a death worthy of a DragonballZ Villain would completely ruin the point of killing off someone far beyond the point of redemption).
This questionable at best, coming from a very generous interpretation of the Chinese word for what Childe meant with strength/power, but everytime the rankings are mentioned it is actual strength that seems to be the defining factor. Also in the Sumeru Archon Quest Paimon says:
>Plus, The Doctor's combat ability alone is apparently enough to make him worthy of being number two of the Fatui...
So Dottore is a powerhouse on its own and not just an influential guy.
that's just one of him too, there used to be dozens of this dude. it makes you wonder how Capitano was ranked higher than him and what feats gave him that rank.
also, Dottore very likely had a lot of involvement in the making of Delusions, which a lot of the lower ranked Harbingers use and even the common troops.
But yes, the devs are definitely not done with him and everyone who’s thinking otherwise is coping and by a lot.
It was so because the writer declared it so.
Plus its not like we are given rote power levels for characters.
So you're incorrectly trying to determine rote power levels to characters based on arbitrary narrative decisions which are being made at the last minute.
Also there is no reason to believe that Sumeru and pre Sumeru Dottore was powerful. We only know that Nahida was both weak and a bit of a coward.
Finally the most important thing to remember is that the writers just wanted to write that Nahida gave Dottore the gnosis. They didn't actually care if it made logical sense.
Characters win or lose not because they should be winning or losing but because the writer wants them to win or lose.
SSGSS Goku should be strong enough to survive blasts that would blowup a star but he gets taken out by an ordinary ray gun because the writer wanted to write that he gets taken out by an ordinary ray gun.
In all seriousness, the harbinger rankings are more or less set in stone, and only death will (possibly) change that. And not even death stopped Capitano from remaining at number 1 out of honor. The only confirmed seat change we’ve seen is when Arlecchino replaced Crucabena.
Which means that the harbingers’ rankings are **no longer** purely based on strength alone. They may have initially been so, but they don’t necessarily take into account if they’ve gotten stronger since then.
So Dottore being stronger than Nahida and Columbina are easy. Nahida is physically the weakest archon (not counting Furina who technically isn’t one), and a well trained vision holder could probably beat her up if not for her crazy mental dream powers, let’s be honest here.
Columbina was literally being rejected by Teyvat, so she was completely unable to harness a significant portion of her strength. Still, it’s impressive that Columbina is even able to rank 3rd despite being nerfed for existing. Frankly at Columbina’s lowest, she was weaker than Arlecchino and possibly even Wanderer.
Speaking of Wanderer, he was arguably for a short while as strong or stronger than Arlecchino when he had the god mech and the electro gnosis. He became a true god (as stated by Nahida). Despite that, I doubt his rank would’ve changed had he stayed with the fatui. And before this, it’s stated that Scaramouche is moreso sturdy and resilient rather than physically powerful (though granted this is said by Signora his number 1 hater). He apparently earned his position as 6th for his ability to resist abyssal corruption. Notably this puts him **below Pulcinella, the old mayor**, as the Rooster is 5th yet none of the (albeit limited) lore we have says anything about his physical ability.
As for Arlecchino, she was not quite on the “god” scaling of power until she got the Moon Marrow, so it’s plausible that Dottore could be stronger. If Arlecchino is “peak human”, Dottore is “peak **modified human**”. That btw would make Capitano “built different” (/hj). Dottore is not afraid of experimenting on himself and he most certainly would have augmented his body with crazy physical strength by the time he created his segments and likely earlier than this.
i think that was pretty much confirmed when multiple seats became vacant and Childe is still the 11th. hell, we don't even know who the 10th is or if it's even filled in or not.
Columbina is a literal goddess - even nerfed, God Tier is still above Arle and the rest so it just makes sense. She was probably around Adeptus level with Adepti having similar feats above anything 4th and lower Harbingers ever achieved.
Totally forgot Scara's rank was mentioned to be because of Durability yeah so that makes sense.
>As for Arlecchino
This is what gets me. Arle should be the peak of Human stregnth due to being born strong, and with an extremely powerful curse and naturally powerful bloodline, but Dottore was literally just SOME GUY. I could understand a bunch of experiments and God Remains elevating him to Sandrome or Pucinella level (Pucinella is probably a Fae) but SECOND? ABOVE THE GODDESS? That's what makes me atleast want any explanation at all but we have none, just all this skepticism yaknow.
>Which means that the harbingers’ rankings are no longer purely based on strength alone.
I do agree with this, as Childe is probably quite a bit higher up now but we just don't have anything to prove it so far. The problem is my whole post is about their rankings prior to everything changing due to the Traveler's journey. If it was ever based on strength, then I want them to give any kind of explanation why he was so strong.
Heck, how the hell is the pyro authority earned by the Pilgrimage (aka a competition of **strength**) when the pyro archon is supposed to be above everyone else? Yes Mavuika is currently unbeatable by any other Natlanese but I’m talking about previous pyro archons. It’s not necessarily death that replaces a pyro archon, and it’s never said that it is death - it’s said it is a competition.
Focalors had the hydro authority yet could not use all the powers it supposedly granted her. It’s not that she was weaker than authority-less Neuvillette perse, but she just simply lacked the power to turn Fontainians into real humans. It’s the **type** of power you have access to - not the strength necessarily.
Nahida has absolutely zero physical feats. Not even Rukkhadevata had any feats aside from terraforming. We cannot simply assume she is physically more powerful just because she has the dendro authority.
The idea that vision holders are automatically below archons and archons are automatically below sovereigns is silly imo. That’s typical powerscaler brainrot and oversimplifies a lot about Genshin’s lore.
Same reasoning that Dottore can be above a weakened Moon Goddess - he’s just a human guy, yeah, so what? Literally the whole premise of Genshin is humans surpassing gods and this has been the case since forever with characters like Venessa.
No offense but I think this might just be you not understanding what the Authority means in Genshin. Neuviellete describes it as the absolute control and command of the element. When Venti ascended to Archonhood, he became capable of reshaping the entire region the way he wanted, hurling mountains around, blowing away the snowscape etc etc. He was not capable of doing this before obtaining the Authority of Anemo. It is literally strength and grants the natural understanding of the ins and outs of the element.
>Focalors had the hydro authority yet could not use all the powers it supposedly granted her.
Your own thinking is hindering your understanding of Elemental Authorities. Focalors was not capable of saving Fontaine with it, correct, but what makes you think it's a type of power and not simple a number go up? If Focalors without the Authority is a 8, but Neuvillete without it is a 12, the way it's spoken about in the Archon Quest it might as well be a unlocker so Focalors goes up to a 10 but for the rightful owner of the Authority it took him up to a 20. Your argument doesn't actually conflate with the popular understanding of Authorities.
>Nahida has absolutely zero physical feats. Not even Rukkhadevata had any feats aside from terraforming. We cannot simply assume she is physically more powerful just because she has the dendro authority.
So in your mind what does "physical" mean here because the raw elemental energy required to "terraform" is worlds greater than any living human with a Dendro Vision would ever be capable of...
>The idea that vision holders are automatically below archons and archons are automatically below sovereigns is silly imo.
Well I mean you're on your own here with this headcanon. There is plenty of actual lore just from AQs alone that explains why we understand it to be the way it is.
>Same reasoning that Dottore can be above a weakened Moon Goddess - he’s just a human guy, yeah, so what? Literally the whole premise of Genshin is humans surpassing gods and this has been the case since forever with characters like Venessa.
Venessa literally ascended, she did not surpass gods she became one. I don't think this discussion is for you man, you receive lore in the game and swipe it away it feels like.
So yeah, having an authority does give you more power, but it doesn’t automatically make you stronger than someone who doesn’t have one.
This is what I mean by Nahida not necessarily being stronger than a vision wielder just because she has an authority. Keep in mind that **it doesn’t have to be the same element**. In fact the element of that vision holder is frankly irrelevant. If Nahida at base is weak, then giving her a power up doesn’t necessarily mean she’ll be stronger than someone who was already stronger at base even after factoring in the power boost.
Likewise, an archon with a stolen authority isn’t necessarily weaker than a sovereign with the rightful authority. For example, if Zhongli was killing gods left and right without an authority, making him a “30” by default, then he came across a weakened Azhdaha who had a “9 at base” plus the authority giving him another “20”, bringing him up to “29”, Zhongli would still be stronger (this is an example, not what is necessarily true).
This is what I mean by “a sovereign is not automatically stronger than an archon”.
This is an important distinction because characters like Raiden have had the majority of their feats done before they got the authority.
Sandrome is an understandable level of power for a robot - being 7th.
Not 2nd. I'm not questioning that he could be that strong I'm questioning HOW and being smart afaik never put Bruce on a literal higher level than locked in bloodlusted Superman. And if it did, I just want any ingame explanation at all.
Sounds like a case of not looking at the point, you pretty much already have the explanation. He's super smart, experiments with a lot of things and has lived a long time. Its not hard to imagine with all his intellect he could find ways to boost himself via tech and self experimentations.
He's ranked number 2 for a reason.
I am literally looking for an explanation not a guess which is all we have...
>you pretty much already have the explanation
No I have fan theories out the wazoo
>Its not hard to imagine with all his intellect he could find ways to boost himself via tech and self experimentations.
Ding, what ways? That's LITERALLY what I'm asking for mate. Sounds like a case of not reading?
>He's ranked number 2 for a reason.
Yes what reason. Even Scara was mentioned to be his rank largely because of his durability. We got NOTHING for Dottore. That is the point of the post.
Then, on top of having a godly body of his own, Dottore is highly skilled at adapting technology he finds for his own use. We saw that in the Sumeru quests, where he downed Traveler and Paimon with a gadget he had acquired from the Academiya - not even something he designed himself.
Basically, he's scarily good at augmenting himself with technology he either finds or designs himself, and he's had many, many years to "upgrade" himself.
Honestly, I find Capitano's spot as number one to be far more questionable. It's a lot easier for me to imagine someone obtaining godlike power through super science and transhumanism than it is for me to imagine becoming godlike by getting really good at swinging a sword... But that's anime for you.
If he's got a similar composition to Scara then why not stick God Remains or whatever in Scara to achieve his level of power? If he's got a human body then where are the drawbacks from using God Remains on himself like EVERYONE ELSE has when messing with them.
Capitano's spot is pretty consistent with Khaenrians of any social standing and combat background being up there with gods. It's not really so much swinging a sword so much so as Khaenrians were just built different.
Part of the problem is that there are gods and then there are GODS. Folks like Morax, Barbatos, Buer and so on are small fry - they're as much slaves to fate as any mortal. Dottore is on their level, and they are considered to be gods - but they're not the true gods, the ones who shape the fate that entraps the lesser gods.
Dottore's experiments, such as the Scaramouche robot are attempts to reach that level. To free himself from the shackles of fate. To become the puppeteer, rather than the puppeted. The Scarabot was considered an unsuccessful attempt - but the moon marrows, on the other hand, apparently gave him what he felt that he needed.
As for jamming god remains into Scaramouche, maybe he DID. We don't know the extent of Dottore's experimentation on him. If he did, I guess it didn't work. It's possible that that's an experiment he never tried, though, given that he had only one divine puppet on-hand to experiment with, and wasn't willing to risk losing his one and only specimen. (Acquiring the Shogunbot for further research would be prohibitively difficult, after all.)
I'm really not sure why you think that Khaenri'ahn fighters are built different. We've never seen one fight a god, aside from Cap vs Mavuika, and that was after his centuries of sword-swinging. They also didn't seem to fare any better against the Abyss than soldiers elsewhere in the world were.
No it literally does, I don't know why you think I want some kind of excrutiating detail when even in my original post I'm just asking for the bare minimum given for every other Harbinger we've faced.
Childe trained with Skirk and fell into the abyss.
Sandrome was created by the greatest mind in Fontaine, is also a genius, and isn't human.
Signora is the Crimson Witch of Flames, etc.
Dottore is a smart guy from Sumeru university.
>I'm really not sure why you think that Khaenri'ahn fighters are built different. We've never seen one fight a god, aside from Cap vs Mavuika, and that was after his centuries of sword-swinging.
??? He literally said he was stronger before those "centuries of sword swinging" you keep mentioning... Are you a lore skipper on a lore reddit post?
>hey also didn't seem to fare any better against the Abyss than soldiers elsewhere in the world were.
So yes you are a lore skipper, got it. I don't mean offense by this, it's just this stuff was literally in the Archon Quests and you seem to have either glossed over it or forgotten it because Khaenriah was destroyed by the Heavenly Principles, not the abyss...
>Fan theory is all you're going to get, I'm afraid.
We could've left it at that mate, the whole post is asking if there was any actual lore from readables explaining something I was missing like I said.