Did 7 dragon sovereigns controlled the 7 elements?

I am not sure where I heard this (can someone tell me where, I think it might be in Natlan about Phlogiston), but I remember hearing PO created 7 elements from Phlogiston.

Is that true? If that’s the case what did 7 sovereigns control before him? Aren’t they elemental dragons? Just like their subordinates who are also elemental lifeforms?

Is it like each element had a primordial version? Pyro phlogiston, Hydro primordial sea, etc? But then again it contradicts the fact 7 elements came from phlogiston. And there is also the lack of primordial energies for other elements.

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EnGardevoir2026-01-22 14:42

I think so far we have met 2 of the dragon sovereigns, Neuvillette and Apep (he's the weekly boss from Sumeru, we meet him during Nahida's second character quest). Dendro seems most closely tied to Irminsul, but I'm not sure how that relates to phlogiston or the primordial sea.

Positive-Chicken-5232026-01-22 14:50

and the pyro

allmistake22026-01-22 14:45

Well we know that apep is tied to dendro directly, as are Dvalin and Ahzdaha to wind and earth respectively. It's possible that Phlogostan was the most suitable primordial element to use for HP's leyline system. After all Phlogistan already functioned as a medium for memories and knowledge, which is an essential part of how Irminsul uses elemental energy to store and circulate information. It also physically the best candidate because it is both tangible, existing in liquid and solid forms, and also very energetically active. So it's probably just that phlogistan was the best of the primordial elements to use as a base.

How I think it would have worked is that the phlogistan was distilled/refined into pure draconic "light realm" energy, and then converted into the diluted seven elements of the human realm.

Lakiel032026-01-22 19:10

Dvalin is not confirmed to be a dragon sovereign, its a theory because its the only anemo dragon we know.

allmistake22026-01-22 19:37

Technically true, but he's also an incredibly powerful dragon. Strong enough to 1v1 Abyssal Durin. Also, I've heard that in the Chinese the word used in his title Erstwhile King of the Skies is the same used later on to refer to the dragon sovereigns. It may not be confirmed, but it is highly likely, both from an in universe perspective, and from a writing perspective. It'd just be weird writing if he wasn't.

HaukevonArding2026-01-22 20:44

In other languages it's more obvious. During our visit in Fontaine we learn about the Hydro souvereign. And the traveler can answer "Oh another elemental dragon..." but in Chinese and other languages the option is "Oh so like Dvalin..."

Lakiel032026-01-22 20:49

Not all dragons are elemental? I thought he just meant that it's an elemental dragon, not necessarily a sovereign dragon. I have the second version in my language.

HaukevonArding2026-01-22 21:24

It's very explicite about "THE elemental dragon of Hydro", in this context "elemental dragon" refers to the seven souvereigns ingame and not to any other kind of dragons. Also the context is pretty explicit. "Hydro Dragon don't cry." "Hydro Dragon? Like Dvalin?"

allmistake22026-01-22 21:58

Actually I dont think we have encountered a true dragon, or even a vishap, that wasn't elemental. And before someone mentions it, no Durin doesn't count. That's not a true dragon.

babangelsin2026-01-22 14:46

There were 7 sovereigns who had sovereignty over their respective element and nation, somewhat similar to the seven archons situation. The extent of their control over their element is not disclosed in detail.

We knew that PO used phlogiston as basis for elemental energy (which is the modern counterpart) but anything other than that is not expanded upon.

So nobody really knows why 7 elements were there before PO harnessed phlogiston into elemental energy that vision holders use, if and how they were different with the modern 7 elements, and what their relationship is with the sovereigns.

Lucky-Oven54672026-01-22 17:06

It is true. Consider phlogiston as raw material or a prism light shines through. Seven dragons commanded each. You can in a way consider those seven sovereigns as Nibulung's "archons" here. Pretty much Phanes: "let me copy your homework. Hehehe!"

TheSynthian2026-01-22 17:33

No, the thing is they say 7 elements are rather new and made by PO. So it shouldn’t be existing before him. But 7 sovereigns said to have authority over the 7 elements and the dragons are also divided into 7 elements. Both of those things has no direct relationship with PO and happened before he came