Ineffa is wild.
Ineffa C0R1 doing about the same amount of damage as Raiden C3R1.
What's the catch? Ineffa's talents are all lvl 1, while Raiden's are lvl 10.
To be honest, I like this team. Does good damage and Raiden allows me to not care about energy. Ineffa and Columbina are on day-1 builds and their ERs range from abysmal to pretty bad, but I have no problems with this team's rotation thanks to Raiden batterying them.
What's the catch? Ineffa's talents are all lvl 1, while Raiden's are lvl 10.
To be honest, I like this team. Does good damage and Raiden allows me to not care about energy. Ineffa and Columbina are on day-1 builds and their ERs range from abysmal to pretty bad, but I have no problems with this team's rotation thanks to Raiden batterying them.
Commentaires
The catch is the 3rd paragraph. Raiden was never a crazy standalone DPS even at her release. Half of her utility is her ability to battery the rest of her team which then translates to more DPS.
Her contribution to group LC damage is also tallied under Ineffa
My c0 Varesa on Vivid notions does slightly above 100K on Chev PMC Iansan, that's why I was asking.
I guess I might try building Iansan in the future to see how she'll do.
She was unmatched because you didn't have decent constellations on 5\* characters before her. At C0 her personal damage was well below Hu Tao or Ganyu.
well yeah they're talking about c3. c3 raiden hypercarry was very very very very good on release lol ganyu/hu tao cons were nice but nothing like c3 raiden
Hu Tao and Ganyu came before Raiden. They also don't have decent constellations. What is untrue about the statement you just quoted?
Holy misinformation.
[This](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15unbOtuI1N7DCtX3VGPisqfQAWfzFQlcLw_aQ34N8lw/edit?usp=drivesdk) is C2 catch raiden in her release meta team, hitting near 77k dps. Unless you believe C3(it's well above 20% increase on kqm) don't push her past 85k, then you're literally wrong.
This was purely single target. If there's three opponents, then her burst hits all three for 500k each followed by charged spam which is also AoE grouped by kazuha, resulting in insane AoE dps. There was no dps at the time that could reach that amounts of AoE dps even at c6, except maybe eula. Do consider abyss was mostly AoE back then.
Your mind is getting swayed with dps from modern days. 85k in ST was still ridiculous in those 2.x days when ganyu and ayaka were top tier with 50k dps. And like I said raiden had so many things going for her, being unrestricted to reactions..infinite interruption resistance...frontloaded damage...C3 made a joke of a game.
>She was unmatched because you didn't have decent constellations on 5\* characters before her
Doesn't change the fact that it was "broken on release". And besides, it wasn't until Nahida C2 where she was outdps'd in single target. Still ruled pretty hard on AoE.
You don't take in future when saying how broken a char was on release. Just because ayaka became useless as hell after 3.0 doesn't make her release any weak.
>At C0 her personal damage was well below Hu Tao or Ganyu.
We are talking about C3 specifically.
genshin community has always had team dps as standard and always will have. And for your information 61k personal dps was still just as broken. [Hu Tao](https://gcsim.app/db/HPRpGMG8Mmdp) only did 44% of her team's dps at c0, that puts it at 30k personal dps and LOCKED to single target, reliant on vape. But she has good synergy with yelan and xingqiu, so she always was a pretty good dps.
Correct
see:
\> Raiden was never a crazy **standalone DPS** even at her release. Half of her utility is her ability to battery the **rest of her team** which then translates to more DPS.
\> At C0 her **personal damage** was well below Hu Tao or Ganyu.
From these lines, do you think I am saying that "Raiden's team DPS was bad" or do you think I might be saying something else?
Also FYI, Yelan was released 1 year after Raiden. Hu Tao's best team was at that time Bennett Kazuha Xingqiu, which put greater focus on Hu Tao's personal damage since you could actually shred Pyro and had Bennett buffs. At the time of Raiden's release Hu Tao had significant lead on her personal DPS as a result. Yelan + Xingqiu was good when Yelan did come out because it sacrificed Hu Tao's damage to focus on the power couple.
I dont know who you would consider standalone if not the dps who is dealing 70% of the team's damage and 61k. Even release neuvillette in his furina(his top ones) teams does less than 70% of a \~80k team dps, and he literally broke meta.
>Also FYI, Yelan was released 1 year after Raiden. Hu Tao's best team was at that time Bennett Kazuha Xingqiu, which put greater focus on Hu Tao's personal damage since you could actually shred Pyro and had Bennett buffs. At the time of Raiden's release Hu Tao had significant lead on her personal DPS as a result
okay lets see this hypercarry team you talk about...[Hu tao](https://gcsim.app/db/NzP6KMhDkWNt)...wow, a 42k!
it even assumes c6 bennett which most probably didnt even activate until later on.
Again you keep ignoring how its so locked to ST and Vape that even c0 raiden hyper clears faster if theres two enemies who doesnt magically stay horizontal aligned
>Yelan + Xingqiu was good when Yelan did come out because it sacrificed Hu Tao's damage to focus on the power couple.
You misunderstood my point. I brought that up to say how braindead comparing personal dps is. Despite dealing only 44% of the team damage, did anyone call her anything other than "good"? she was always considered a broken "standalone" dps in the game. If she isnt the prime example, then there is no prime example. Even chlorinde and varesa does less than 70% of their own team's dmg.
...
Now lets move on to [Ganyu](https://gcsim.app/db/8DgMC6TK9ntq)...Her dps contribution is...70% in her standard melt team. its..34k. Wow, pretty crazy. Atleast this one is AoE so ill leave it alone.
I am literally making the point to OP that Raiden is not as bad as they seem to think because she wasn't supposed to be personal damage oriented in the first place. The C2-C3 had high percentage upgrades because that is what it took to put her personal damage on a decent level, but it changes nothing for the rest of the team nor does it say anything about game's "powercreep levels" because of her relatively unique place in on-field category.
Before trying to teach me about "meta knowledge", try to derive meaning from context.
>it even assumes c6 bennett
Yeah like the sheet that assumes R5 Mouun's moon on C6 Sara who pulls 10K, and Kazuha who pulls 11K because there are 2 targets and he is on 150% ER.
And I am glad that you found out yourself that Hu Tao and Ganyu had higher personal damage than Raiden at C0. Congratulations.
Bro literally skipped through everything I've said. Als, your follow up comments never matched with your initial intent.
C0 Raiden might not be a selfish DPS, but C3 is selfish enough to deal 70% of her own team's dmg contribution. It doesn't get higher than that.
Once again, this comment thread was not comparing raiden vs modern on fielders. You specifically said raiden was not a strong standalone dps at *release* and then said I was wrong for saying C3 Raiden was broken af on release. It's what started everything, because she was
>Before trying to teach me about "meta knowledge", try to derive meaning from context.
Before doing that, I'd rather you stop spreading misinformation that never supports any context.
>Yeah like the sheet that assumes R5 Mouun's moon on C6 Sara who pulls 10K, and Kazuha who pulls 11K because there are 2 targets and he is on 150% ER.
Are you really an old player?
I mentioned Bennett specifically because his C6 was called cursed by the community until 3.x or so, most people never activated it until later on. We know better now, but with so few releases most people kept him c5.
>I am literally making the point to OP that Raiden is not as bad as they seem to think because she wasn't supposed to be personal damage oriented in the first place
But C3 Raiden is personal damage oriented, very much so at her *release*. C0 doesn't matter, because the dmg increase from C3 is so massive that it becomes similar to C3 characters who were personal damage oriented at C0.
If you didn't mention release, then it would have made better sense, maybe.
And again, your intent drifts further away as you keep downplaying raiden with your replies to my comments.
>And I am glad that you found out yourself that Hu Tao and Ganyu had higher personal damage than Raiden at C0. Congratulations.
Yeah thanks, almost double the amount.
Grabbed Bineffa, both C0R1 this patch.
These things start with 4.0 fontaine where dps unit deal massive damage compared to previous sumeru units specifically neuv and arlecchino,