Phanes defenders?
I was going to ask this in a lore sub but figured I'd cast a wider net here. With the recent lore, a lot of people have started to side with Phanes and the Shades. But I seem to be in the portion of the fandom which remains kinda unmoved? Like, of course Phanes has a reason for taking over Teyvat. Every colonizer does. Why would Phanes caring about humanity make them particularly any less culpable? Granted, the Moon Sisters did say that they originally saw Phanes as a guest-- makes sense with Phanes seeking refuge from the Abyss. But I mean, I dont really think a guest typically deconstructs all your furniture, steals all your stuff, and kicks you out. It was "for humanity", but I mean, thats kind of on the level of "I have a family". but of course everyone does
I've also read the argument that Phanes was originally diplomatic in their approach, but i kinda doubt that. Phanes was simply too powerful for the Moon Sisters to resist, it was between obey or get obliterated. So not much of a choice really. Phanes' lore is cool and all but I'm just curious as to how people can rationalize that. They're cool as like an amoral progenitor god, but they'd suck at parties imo. So I wanted to ask Phanes fans what their reasoning is, cause I concede that im probably biased (coming from a country that was colonized at one point). Pls dont be shy im not trying to start an argument!!!
I've also read the argument that Phanes was originally diplomatic in their approach, but i kinda doubt that. Phanes was simply too powerful for the Moon Sisters to resist, it was between obey or get obliterated. So not much of a choice really. Phanes' lore is cool and all but I'm just curious as to how people can rationalize that. They're cool as like an amoral progenitor god, but they'd suck at parties imo. So I wanted to ask Phanes fans what their reasoning is, cause I concede that im probably biased (coming from a country that was colonized at one point). Pls dont be shy im not trying to start an argument!!!
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***Your blade falls upon the proud heads of the people, intoxicating the earth with blood, drowning the lofty mountains and all the pines that adorn them.***
***You have laid waste their kingdoms, slaughtered their people, and spared neither offspring nor posterity.***
Lets ignore Koitar and the moons, why did Istaroth had to go behind his back to help humanity?
Why was Ronova punished heavily to the point she's depressed for helping Humanity?
Why was Naberius' heart in some random dungeon?
Why does almost every Archon dislike him?
Why did Asmoday straight up betray him?
Why did Deshret, Remus, Tsaritsa, Khaenriah, and every lore relevant figure hate him?
These all wouldn't happen if he was a net positive for Teyvat
It's like saying that a person was punished for helping the poor even though they stole the money that had been distributed. It's still a rulebreaker.
Almost every Archon and there's at best just Furina who could be made the case. And obviously the Tsaritsa.
The other Archons don't exactly have an opinion on the Celestial gods aside from "They should broaden their horizons and see the world below."
Assuming that Phanes did it to Naberius is funny because so far we don't have any idea why she was that way. And it wouldn't even make sense since Phanes was already in a coma back then, and Naberius was still kicking around the Cataclysm before Gold went rogue.
The other characters are straight up Abyss munchers and we know how their lives ended. And only of their fates was Celestia's doing.
no its closer to punishing a person for using their political power to stop a genocide and save people, just because it goes against your ideology and rules.
>Almost every Archon and there's at best just Furina who could be made the case. And obviously the Tsaritsa.
Manga Venti paints a different story, Zhongli signed a contract with Tsaritsa willingly knowing what it will lead to, Ei hates Celestia, that's literally why she gave her gnosis to Yae.
>Assuming that Phanes did it to Naberius is funny because so far we don't have any idea why she was that way. And it wouldn't even make sense since Phanes was already in a coma back then, and Naberius was still kicking around the Cataclysm before Gold went rogue.
That's not even what I meant, if he was a good ruler a cosmic artifact wouldn't be accessible to a Sinner.
>The other characters are straight up Abyss munchers and we know how their lives ended. And only of their fates was Celestia's doing.
Remus? used abyss? when?
Ronova was punished for acting out of her way, not for helping the humans.
Zhongli's contract details are still unknown. Even aside from that, we have many voicelines of Zhongli reminiscing the Heavens and the older Archons.
Ei fears the HP because she is aware of how destructive they can be when humanity tries to take ahold of Abyssal power.
Which is why she tried to align herself with their ideals, but to a very strict degree.
Tf would the ruler do if he was in a coma.
Remus met a tragic end because he tried to avoid a self-fulfilling prophecy, ultimately torturing his civilians for a long time. A mistake he realised himself as well.
He ultimately tried to take "fate" in his own hands. It wasn't a bad choice or decision, but he ultimately played into fate's hands.
>Ronova was punished for acting out of her way, not for helping the humans.
pick a train, she can't act out of her way if the original entity doesn't agree. She can't be autonomous in that case. How did Asmoday go rogue if that's the case? It's literally the same as Focalors and Furina. They were once the part of same being, not anymore.
Would you still have arguments and disagreements like individual beings? Yes.
Would are you ultimately the same person? Also yes.
The behaviour and feelings of the person doesn't change.
Focalors and Furina have shown cleared signs of distinction and they are a lot closer than the shades and Phanes.
>If you cloned into two clones of youself.
They aren't clones. Phanes is Androgynous, while the shades are female.
***It had wings and a crown, and was birthed from an egg, androgynous in nature*** ***androgynous in nature.***
same book refers to Istaroth as a she
>The behaviour and feelings of the person doesn't change.
The Dottore Segments and Focalors/Furina have different behaviours and feelings.
Khaenriah hated everyone. They just happened to have found the time to hate Phanes between hating everything else.
We know nothing about what happened to Naberius, and despite whatever happened to her, she is still not allowing Rhine to even think about rebellion. If she was truly wronged, she could have easily pushed Rhine to rebel, and if the rebellion failed, she could just feign powerlessness and claim it was all Rhine’s doing.
You also fail to realize that the Shades are not separate entities. They are one and the same as the Primordial One, just different aspects of it, projected as shadows. Asmoday did not betray him either. She simply faded away or regressed into Paimon. This is further evidenced by the Traveler’s bio.
Khaenri’ah was literally creating machines of war and spying on every nation, and they were ready to kill innocent people for nothing. King Irmin literally ordered a genocide, which was done with malicious intent and fits your Holocaust comparison far more than anything the Primordial One ever did.
The Archons do not hate the Primordial One. I don’t know where you got that from. Maybe you could argue about Venti because he gave up his Gnosis, but he still had dealings with the Shade of Time, so it looks more like planning than hatred. Zhongli simply has a contract with them that keeps him silent. Ei is a special case where her ideal directly aligns with the Heavenly Principles. Eternity means preventing change and keeping humanity from being left unchecked, because that leads to people seeking abyssal power and almost destroying the world every time.
The Primordial One literally created the Vision and ascension systems so humans could become strong if they wanted to. The problem is that humanity is arrogant and constantly seeks power it cannot control.
Nahida is neutral. Focalors is where things can actually be debated. There is no logical way to justify the Primordial One fating all Fontainians to die, except that they didn’t really die. They regressed back into Oceanids and began existing as a collective consciousness.
The reason this even happened is probably tied to the Primordial One’s nature as an AI, which is very plausible. He simply did not consider Fontainians to be humans due to their unique creation, and therefore did not apply the same principles used for actual, real humans.
Egeria also literally knew she was breaking the rules by creating them in the first place and chose to do it anyway, fully aware that they would suffer for her transgression.
Moving on to Natlan, Mavuika does not hate the Primordial One, and neither did any Pyro Archon. The Primordial One believed humans could triumph against the Abyss on their own, and the Shades are prohibited from interfering at all. It’s not like Ronova was punished for something she didn’t know she was doing.
That said, it’s still not justifiable on the Heavenly Principles’ part, unless they actually knew humans would win with or without Ronova.
This is not "Genshin's theme", every work of fiction that is not a religious text will likely not adhere to moral realism.
She didn’t.
>Why was Ronova punished heavily to the point she's depressed for helping Humanity?
Ronova wasn’t punished
>Why was Naberius' heart in some random dungeon?
Literally nobody knows
>Why does almost every Archon dislike him?
They don’t. Venti just says that food in celestia is bad. Ei is only afraid of celestia’s punishment. Focalors is the only one this can apply to and even this doesn’t apply to celestia as a whole just the one prophecy
>Why did Asmoday straight up betray him?
Nobody knows
>Why did Deshret
He didn’t hate them, he just arrogantly and incorrectly thought he could do better
>Remus
Remus had no relationship with celestia
>Tsaritsa
Nobody knows
>Khaenriah
They hated every god an explicitly only cared about their own people and civilization
Enkanomiya
>Remus had no relationship with celestia
Fortuna was literally created to break free of HP enforced fate
>They hated every god an explicitly only cared about their own people and civilization
because it was formed by the survivors of the Funerary War, Phanes literally slaughtered their ancestors that's why they hate them.
>Venti just says that food in celestia is bad.
he literally gets weary thinking about the clocked Celestial Gods, page 49.
>Ei is only afraid of celestia’s punishment.
She wouldn't throw away the gnosis if she merely feared them, not even acknowledging the symbol of HP isn't someone who's just "scared"
>He didn’t hate them, he just arrogantly and incorrectly thought he could do better
He wanted a free world for his people something that Celestia would never allow.
>he would look up at the sky and remember the ***"boundless paradise high above and the merciless reign of thousands of years past."***
Phanes had no interaction with istaroth or enkanomiya
>Fortuna was literally created to break free of HP enforced fate
Fortuna is the term the remurians used for celestia’s fate. And even if you’re talking about Phobos, it works within Fortuna just like what Neuvilette did with the fontainians. And even if you were right that still says nothing about Remus hating them
>Phanes literally slaughtered their ancestors that's why they hate them.
Source?
>he literally gets weary thinking about the clocked Celestial Gods, page 49.
and this means he hates them how?
>She wouldn't throw away the gnosis if she merely feared them, not even acknowledging the symbol of HP isn't someone who's just "scared"
She’s trying to sever ties with them.
>He wanted a free world for his people something that Celestia would never allow.
That doesn’t matter nor does it contradict what I said. The ends don’t justify the means especially if the means don’t work, and a world built on slavery and power is also way worse than anything in modern teyvat
He didn't have any with Natlan either, yet Ronova helping them was seen as an act of rebellion. And Istaroth was far more active with Enka than Ronova was with Natlan.
>The ends don’t justify the means especially if the means don’t work, and a world built on slavery and power
slavery was never a thing in his kingdom, he wasn't even involved in Gurabad. And talking about world built on power, Phanes literally caused the archon war.
>Source?
Sal Vindagnyr texts
It was seen as overstepping her bounds, not rebellion
>And Istaroth was far more active with Enka than Ronova was with Natlan.
What exactly do you think istaroth did for enkanomiya?
>slavery was never a thing in his kingdom, he wasn't even involved in Gurabad.
Deshret explicitly lied to the jinn about the goddess of Flowers’s death and used their names to enslave them. And record of transparent ruins is all about deshret’s people importing slaves from gurabad
>Phanes literally caused the archon war
Which was about fixing the world. Nothing to do with power
>Sal Vindagnyr texts
Nothing about anything in dragonspine talks about them being related to khaenriah or the reason Khaenriah hates the gods
>“…You have rendered the earth a desolation, overturning its cities, preventing monarchs from entering their final repose. You have laid waste their kingdoms, slaughtered their people, and spared neither offspring nor posterity.”
>“…Your blade falls upon the proud heads of the people, intoxicating the earth with blood, drowning the lofty mountains and all the pines that adorn them.
>To sing in the nothingness of utter ruin is far more agreeable than to endure servitude beneath a false heavenly light.
Even Nibelung the literal bringer of Abyss is seen in good light by some but not this dude.
Even Istaroth has gone behind his back because he's unreasonable
It's not like he ever showed any restraint either or showed mercy
But you can't look at it through only one point of view given by someone who directly rebelled against HP.
She was also influenced by someone who clearly did not like HP for still not really any justifiable reason, the Voyager was basically just a Nibelung simp.
We don't know if Asmoday rebelled against Phanes, you're assuming something about a plot point that we don't have much information at all on.
We only hear about them through different persons, with some extremely biased point of views and never the PO themselves, so it's impossible to actually know.
everything we know states otherwise. Just because they were part of him doesn't make them the same being. Focalors and Furina aren't the same being. Istaroth and Ronova have literally done things behind his back
>We don't know if Asmoday rebelled against Phanes, you're assuming something about a plot point that we don't have much information at all on.
she literally went rogue, that's literally a show of rebellion.
>We only hear about them through different persons, with some extremely biased point of views and never the PO themselves
"We've never heard from Jack the ripper's direct mouth, that means we can't definitively say he's evil!!! Those innocent women must be in the wrong!!!"
Ronova directly praises Mavuika for defeating the threat of the Abyss and says that the "Heavenly Principles would be very impressed."
Time and time again, when we are provided something even remotely similar to PO's PoV, we get his love for humanity.
Even in his Dainsleif's introduction card, we find that PO overturned the Abyssal calamity 500 years ago.
Koitar on the other hand caused the destruction of her species by falling in love with a random she met not too long ago, and blurted all of Celestia's secrets to a possessed youth. (God knows if he had been taken over willingly.)
Khanriaeh, Deshret used the Abyss, and ultimately fell to the calamity.
Remus crafted his own demise by imprisoning his citizens to golems. A fault he himself realised by the end.
A possessed one at that too.
It's not like he ever showed any restraint either or showed mercy
Even Istaroth has gone behind his back because he's unreasonable
Do we take the moons seriously?
we don't even know the timeframe of anything leading from Voyager arriving to their rebellion, all we had is romanticized writings regarding what happened. That's like using Percy Jackson as a historically accurate retelling of the Greek Mythology
Ultimately, Koitar would end up as looking like a fool for blurting out the secrets of Celestia to a person who hates them with pride.
Neither did Phanes completely wipe out the dragons, nor did he eliminate the Dragon Sovereigns after his inquisition.
So the "destruction" of dragonkind was ultimately just the end of the Abyss juices Nibelung, who basically went after the Voyager as well.
Koitar basically caused the destruction of her species by blurting out secrets of Celestia to the Voyager.
LOTN still works under Celestia, and Nicole basically helps them out as well.
Zibai provides a very positive view of the Heavens.
So it's basically Koitar doing her shenanigans.
that speaks more about his own limitations, he isn't capable of complete terraformation of teyvat's original order.
>Koitar basically caused the destruction of her species by blurting out secrets of Celestia to the Voyager.
mf blaming everyone but the one who killed them, random seelies deserved it, innocent khaenriahn's deserved it
>So the "destruction" of dragonkind was ultimately just the end of the Abyss juices Nibelung, who basically went after the Voyager as well.
the 40 year war was before Nibelung. That's like saying Japan wasn't evil since they didn't kill everyone in China.
He just left them be as long as they didnt bother him.
That's why the Dragonlords still existed in Natlan until the humans defeated them.
Innocent Khaenriehn, *looks inside* , smoking Abyssal weed.
The Angels were punished because of Koitar, leading Celestia to believe they could flip over any time, placing restrictions on most of them, except a few.
If your child just blurted out your social security number to a random stranger, would you punish them or just let them be?
Something so drastic can warranty bigger punishments.
Just as I said before, the Dragons weren't killed off, he "defeated them", and that's the point. He won, there was no point in torturing them further.
If he did then Teyvat wouldn't be in a constant state of reversion.
**the usurper had their functions ruined, and could no longer use their absolute** ***authority to suppress the original order of this world.***
we get it dude, the random homeless Khaenriahn wasn't in the wrong but the conqueror with a trillion kill streak is benevolent. You win
>The Angels were punished because of Koitar, leading Celestia to believe they could flip over any time,
placing restrictions on most of them, except a few.
restrictions and its ripping them apart and turning them into bodyless barely alive things.
>If your child just blurted out your social security number to a random stranger, would you punish them or just let them be?
WE were talking about random seelies, stay on topic. And yeah, you win. Random angel deserved it because of Koitar. What's next Jews deserved Holocaust because the Banker Elites who were jewish were evil?
We get a lot of accounts from others who lose to phanes and these individuals while retelling the story also sand off a lot of the bs they do before.
Case and point khaenriah.
When we meet dain we get told first hand that khaenraih was the peak of humanity devoid of reliance on the divine and we are lead to believe that humanity was wrongfully punished because phanes/celestia was jealous.
Flash forward to now and we keep getting more information that this was not the case. Humanity was racist, arrogant and so on.
As we traveler the world we see first hand the destruction the abyss brings to everyone, and the toll taken on every other nation because of the abyss involvement.
We are told the people of khaenriah used the abyss as means of party tricks and to mock the other nations, and celestia allowed them till the cataclysm where they punished everyone for this arrogance.
Then you have the fatui who like to claim that they are fighting against the tyranny of the divine bur look inside the fatui's own actions.
The screw over their fellow humans in various nations, try to bully them physically, politically and so on.
The enabled people like dottore to run around, a guy who outright disrupts and causes chaos in several nations and is shielded by them till he turns on them.
The fatui have done a lot bad things across the other nations, even nations where one harbinger helped like capitano, another harbinger pantalone caused trouble.
All of this to oppose celestia.
None of these groups who are 'fighting' against celestia ever focus on just celestia, they instead drag dozens of innocents into the fight.
When celestia punished people, you could still make arguments that it was a necessary evil cause the abyss corruption was just that bad that sparing them would be worse for the world but you can't argue this so much to the others.
What good was corrupting dvalin and turning him against mondstadt supposed to do? What good was igniting the civil war of inazuma or trying to drown liyue harbor? They don't have any reason to meddle with them but they don't.
The dragons are honestly the only one who are justified...and even amongst the dragons you have divisiveness. There are dragons who absolutely despise the abyss and honestly rightfully so. The abyss corrupts and endahers the world but nibelung, apep and few other still meddle or enable it and when the world suffers others need to sacrifice and clean up there mess.
Apep allowed deshret to research forbidden knowledge and that endangered many in sumeru but apep doesn't care. Nahida risks her existence to save apep and ease her pain but the dragon comments when nahida falls she will still mock and sneer.
There are dragons who respect phanes for keeping the abyss out, and some who hate the abyss so much that they rather kill everything than let it win.
If even the dragons can have groups that despise the abyss like this.
Surely it brings into question just how trustworthy nibelung was.
On top of that we have seen that even the biggest weapon of phanes, the celestia nail, once a thought to be the punishment for the nations or places it hated, also happens to be a tool for easing the corruption of the abyss.
It makes you thin thst while we have all these seemingly innocent and decent factions who end up being horrible, that phanes is the opposite.
These groups pretend to be righteous but are just as corrupt as the one the claim to fight.
Meanwhile celestia who is said to be evil turns out to have done more to help than people realize.
We are shown time and time again that the abyss is a dangerous threat, even in the current day we can find traces from all these ruins that explicitly say it's bad.
Even the dragons know and acknowledge the abyss is bad but some of them still went after it.
You can only fault HP's lack of communication skills so much.
We have an entire desert civilization which mind you exists right next to khaenriah, suffer a disaster from the abyss and yet the khaenriah never takes any warning of this. Like you'd expect that some of them would find ruins or something, the gate khaenriah is literally in the desert right next to where apep slumbers, right where a nail was supposedly dropped.
Are we really suppose to believe these groups who who both so similar in desiring to build machines and search forbidden knowledge didn't cross paths at one point?
Like the issue I have is that all these groups don't give us the truth, they very easily dismiss their own involvement.
Most of the time celestia is reacting to what they do.
You layout all of the times celestia was an aggressor rather than reaction, you'll find it's more passive than before.
Celestia's biggest crime so far is the colonization aspect...but that's literally the major aggression.
Almost every other action has been a reaction to other groups messing around with what they shouldn't thinking they know better and finding out very quickly they do not.
Until we get proper onscreen character moments for celestia...it just feels like a lot of the groups we see and villifying them to save their own face, or are trying to escape accountability.
I can accept celestia did bad things but I'll admit I detest the ones who hide or make light of their own actions. It always leaves me questioning how bad celestia truly was and just how much these groups leave out.
The leader himself/herself cannot come to every citizen to know what they want. That's why local leaders, mayors, ministers etc. are needed.
If your teacher taught you well is that credit to your president?
"The Year of the Ark's Opening"
The Primordial One had a sacred plan for humans. As long as they were happy, it too rejoiced.
"The Year After the Ark's Opening"
The people worked the land, and so came the first harvest. The people mined, and so reaped the first crop of precious ore. The people gathered, and the first poems were written.
"The Year of Jubilee"
If there was hunger, the heavens would bring down food and rain. If there was poverty, the earth would bring forth its riches. If melancholy were to spread, the heavens would reply with their voices. The one taboo was to succumb to temptation. But the path to temptation had already been sealed."
from sun and moon am pretty sure temptation refers to the abyss so the unified civilization knew well what to do and not to do they were told to stay away from the abyss
just reading this will get you killed. That's what they did to Orabashi, poor guy read the book and was blackmailed into killing himself, or his people would die with him.
Khaneri'ah was a great example of this. For years, they tried to give impression that they were the shining beacon of humanity. Then fast forward few years later, and we see how they couldn't be further from the truth, and they were the ones who brought their destruction on themselves.
The curse of immortality is the controversial topic, but rarely do I see the destruction part.
Then another example with Nod Krai are the supplementary materials. We thought that Phanes once destroyed an advanced civilization because they were well...advanced. But then we learnt that the reasoning was completely wrong. He/she didn't destroy it for that reason. He destroyed it out of retaliation. That civilization had come knocking on his door armed with the near equal of nuclear weapons, and their destruction by that point in time was justified self-defense.
Basically, we never got a chance to see or hear anything from Celestia or Phanes's side of the story. Until much later when we at least get more context or a neutral view of the events from a either a third party or so. And because we were working with bias sources or incomplete information, it makes it easy to paint him as an evil individual instead of a morally grey one.
you do realize Khaenriah was formed right around the time of the Angel Rebellion and Nibelung's return? its more like 4000-6000 years later when Irmin came into power and summoned Lumine/Aether that they truly started exploiting the abyss
Shouldn’t the responsibility first fall to the people of Khaneri’ah? They also had all the power to stop Irmin, but everyone just turned a blind eye to all the horrors that was taking place
They were in an even better position to stop Irmin and they also had the power to do so.
We saw Dain literally pleading for others to join him in stopping Irmin, but everyone told him to get lost because while everyone hated Irmin, they were all to afraid to do so.
Those guys let Irmin drag things on until it caused the Cataclysm despite being in an even better position than HP to stop Irmin.
Captain of the ship doctrine
>Shouldn’t the responsibility first fall to the people of Khaneri’ah? They also had all the power to stop Irmin, but everyone just turned a blind eye to all the horrors that was taking place
Yet the final responsibility should remain to the one who holds the most knowledge to therefore act. The HP could have prevented Irmin from acquiring the sibling. The HP could have informed the sibling of their role whatever that may be.
>They were in an even better position to stop Irmin and they also had the power to do so. We saw Dain literally pleading for others to join him in stopping Irmin, but everyone told him to get lost because while everyone hated Irmin, they were all to afraid to do so.
You're saying that employees are responsible for stopping the branch manager and not the CEO?
>Those guys let Irmin drag things on until it caused the Cataclysm despite being in an even better position than HP to stop Irmin.
You could also say the same with HP. It just allowed the whole situation to escalate.
Why do you even say they are in "a better position"? What's your basis to even conclude they are in a better position when they are constituents of that kingdom and are thus expected to be subservient to their king.
Can a grass hopper stand against a toad? Your understanding of the food chain is deeply flawed.
Khaneri'ah was a godless nation who wanted independence from the gods. If they wanted independence from them, than they are responsible for themselves, not the gods.
>You're saying that employees are responsible for stopping the branch manager and not the CEO?
That depends, is the manager going behind the CEO's back and actively doing all this terrible things without them knowing? If the CEO is unaware of this, but the other employees knew of this, than the employees should have either told the CEO or stopped the manager themselves.
>
>Why do you even say they are in "a better position"? What's your basis to even conclude they are in a better position when they are constituents of that kingdom and are thus expected to be subservient to their king.
>Can a grass hopper stand against a toad? Your understanding of the food chain is deeply flawed.
This isn't like Inazuma's case. The people who hated Irmin weren't just regular people, they were filled with some of the heaviest hitters of the nation around.
Even the royal guards hated Irmin, but they didn't rebel out of fear. Irmin has never been stated to be some great warrior or magician. An incredibly paranoid individual though.
Dain was one of the most powerful figures in Khaneri'ah, and according to the Abyss Sibling is invincible if he puts his mind to it. They were in a great position to remove Irmin if they were willing to act.
With Khaenri'ah as example, sure. Perhaps they stayed out of it because the people there preferred to be godless. But what about the other civilizations? The moon sisters know that HP has been nailing civilizations so this goes back way before the time of Khaenri'ah. Why does it only have a heavy handed solution?
> That depends, is the manager going behind the CEO's back and actively doing all this terrible things without them knowing? If the CEO is unaware of this, but the other employees knew of this, than the employees should have either told the CEO or stopped the manager themselves.
This is funny. The CEO example is a human-level analogy. We are talking about a god who has all the power to know and not be simply unaware. Of course we have a lot of examples of a little bit of abyss scattered here and there and yet they remain. Why is the HP not cleaning those up?
>This isn't like Inazuma's case. The people who hated Irmin weren't just regular people, they were filled with some of the heaviest hitters of the nation around.
Heavy hitters? Who decided that? We are talking about a few special people against a king who holds the military might of an entire nation. Realistically, if you were the HP, how many innocent people do you want to see revolting against a king and get killed by doing so before just eliminating the sole problem which was Irmin? Why would you let it be the vulnerable people themselves be the ones to stand against Irmin and be exposed to the temptation of the abyss that was left behind?
>Dain was one of the most powerful figures in Khaneri'ah, and according to the Abyss Sibling is invincible if he puts his mind to it. They were in a great position to remove Irmin if they were willing to act.
They did and where did that get them. They did stop Irmin but a power vacuum was created. Five vulnerable idiots fell to the temptation of the abyss. Meanwhile, HP was just watching this waiting for abyss to spread so it can curse everyone there?
And if you think HP is simply blind and unaware of all this transpiring, then it just casts doubt on whether it deserves to be respected as the highest form of power. If it was aware then it is then a negligent power. It was suppose to care for human life. If the humans didn't want a god in the Khaenri'ah for example, it still doesn't follow why it would choose to destroy human life.
As for the other civilizations that you're not mentioning, what about those? Can you even defend every single extreme measure the HP has done to solve a problem whenever it could have intervened at earlier points to de-escalate the situation? The problem lies with the fact that the only interventions the HP has set as examples for the player are always a final judgment act with a lot of collateral damage.
I won't bother quoting everything you mention, so I'll just say this. Regarding why, why and why you keep asking, then I just say, just wait and see. We are finally getting things on their perspective in Nod Krai after so long.
Some of what we learnt ended up explaining and even justifying some of their actions.
Like the reveal that the idea that PH destroyed advanced civilizations because of tech progress is wrong. And that he only destroyed some of them out of self-defense.
We are at the start of seeing their perspective. I would rather wait and see first.
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This is funny. The CEO example is a human-level analogy. We are talking about a god who has all the power to know and not be simply unaware. Of course we have a lot of examples of a little bit of abyss scattered here and there and yet they remain. Why is the HP not cleaning those up?
Didn't HP lost a lot of power in the war against Nibelung prior? It's authority and power were greatly reduced after that. It was no longer as powerful or all-knowing as it once was.
And besides, even gods themselves are not all seeing. Ei herself was a good example. Literally was not aware that her own retainers double crossed her and have been feeding her fake info that the people were in full support of the Vision Hunt and Sakoku decree. And yes, contrary to what she first said to the Traveler about knowing it, her follow up character quest reveals that she was wrong.
>They did stop Irmin but a power vacuum was created. Five vulnerable idiots fell to the temptation of the abyss.
They only stopped Irmin after the cataclysm was caused. Which led the abyss to flood into the world, and left everyone vulnerable to it's corruption. Had they acted sooner, they might not have been corrupted.
That's because you can't defend it. If you didn't know enough to defend in the first place, why are you defending it? The correct stance for the player has always been to never side with any of these old timers.
>Didn't HP lost a lot of power in the war against Nibelung prior? It's authority and power were greatly reduced after that. It was no longer as powerful or all-knowing as it once was.
But the moon sisters did say that they have already been heavy handed before. That's before Nibelung returned. So where's your defense?
> And besides, even gods themselves are not all seeing. Ei herself was a good example. Literally was not aware that her own retainers double crossed her and have been feeding her fake info that the people were in full support of the Vision Hunt and Sakoku decree. And yes, contrary to what she first said to the Traveler about knowing it, her follow up character quest reveals that she was wrong.
Don't try to assume all gods have equal powers because they have an order, a hierarchy. Citing inferior gods as examples of not being all knowing does not work as a defense or excuse for the supposed highest god in all of Teyvat. We could easily assume that HP has the power of everyone because that is what it means to be omnipotent.
>They only stopped Irmin after the cataclysm was caused. Which led the abyss to flood into the world, and left everyone vulnerable to it's corruption. Had they acted sooner, they might not have been corrupted.
You're misremembering. The Cataclysm happened after Irmin died and his abyss got split for the 5 sinners. Dain's mini revolution led to it as the conclusion. A consequence that did not have to happen if HP already intervened.
Cause that’s the thing, even in a post asking “why do you support celestia” half the answers were “I realised their opposition were all idiots” and the more the lore shows us how those guys were screwing around the more people will start to think “…phanes was really patient with them now that I see this.”
Hell, just this patch we learned that they spent ten years preparing to rebel and even built giant canons to blast the HP in the face as they busted through its door and pierced the false sky, that the survivors expected to succeed, let alone complained about the outcome, just comes off as asanine.