Seutervoinen: the one who started it all
I previously asked the Phanes defenders of this sub to give me their opinions on why they support the Heavenly Principles. And most of the responses I got said that it was out of benefit of the doubt— since we haven’t heard from Phanes or anyone on THEIR side. However, this answer still proved irksome to me. The only thing we can really doubt at this point is the Heavenly Principles’ intentions. And yes, their intentions can recontextualize their actions. For instance, we originally thought that the Celestial Nails were simply weapons with which to smite civilizations. When, in reality, they were meant to heal the land following the war of funerary flame. But although the intentions of the Heavenly Principles can recontextualize their actions, they don’t do much in the way of excusing their actions.
No matter what way you spin it, the Heavenly Principles is a Usurper, and Nibelung was a lunatic. Their intentions may recontextualize their actions of course. Phanes did it for the sake of humanity, while Nibelung did it to avenge the extermination of his species. Both are reasonable causes for which to fight. And one way or another, you can’t deny that both of them only wanted what was best for humankind. They resorted to ruthless methods, but only in the face of such a ruthless force: the abyss. You can’t really fight the Phanes v. Nibelung battle anymore, because both sides can pull infinite valid points out of their teapots. One side will say that Phanes was allowed into Teyvat by the Moon SIsters, while another will say that the Moon Sisters had no choice but to comply. One will say that Phanes is a genocidal murderer, while the other will say that Nibelung is too. One will say that Phanes saved humanity, but the other will say that it came at the cost of another peoples who had an equal right to exist.
So I propose a new, unified villain for everyone— whether a nibelung loyalist or a phanes devotee— to band against: Seutervoinen. Seutervoinen’s entire job was to observe planets which were fated for ruin, nothing more. But she just couldn’t keep to herself. Thus she intervened, and warned Nibelung. This set off the course of events leading to Nibelung venturing into the cosmos and getting corrupted by the abyss. Because he wasn’t home, Phanes was able to come in and take the planet without any contest. Had Seutervoinen not warned Nibelung, he would have simply stayed on Teyvat. Thus, he would’ve been there when Phanes arrived. And if Nibelung (in his non-insane state) was there to meet Phanes, perhaps the war would have played out very differently. Granted, I doubt that Phanes would have stopped just because the planet’s owner was home. But part of the agenda as to why Phanes conquered the planet was because it was supposedly “Abandoned” by its creator. Squatters rights, basically. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if Seut was Asmoday’s new master tbh.
No matter what way you spin it, the Heavenly Principles is a Usurper, and Nibelung was a lunatic. Their intentions may recontextualize their actions of course. Phanes did it for the sake of humanity, while Nibelung did it to avenge the extermination of his species. Both are reasonable causes for which to fight. And one way or another, you can’t deny that both of them only wanted what was best for humankind. They resorted to ruthless methods, but only in the face of such a ruthless force: the abyss. You can’t really fight the Phanes v. Nibelung battle anymore, because both sides can pull infinite valid points out of their teapots. One side will say that Phanes was allowed into Teyvat by the Moon SIsters, while another will say that the Moon Sisters had no choice but to comply. One will say that Phanes is a genocidal murderer, while the other will say that Nibelung is too. One will say that Phanes saved humanity, but the other will say that it came at the cost of another peoples who had an equal right to exist.
So I propose a new, unified villain for everyone— whether a nibelung loyalist or a phanes devotee— to band against: Seutervoinen. Seutervoinen’s entire job was to observe planets which were fated for ruin, nothing more. But she just couldn’t keep to herself. Thus she intervened, and warned Nibelung. This set off the course of events leading to Nibelung venturing into the cosmos and getting corrupted by the abyss. Because he wasn’t home, Phanes was able to come in and take the planet without any contest. Had Seutervoinen not warned Nibelung, he would have simply stayed on Teyvat. Thus, he would’ve been there when Phanes arrived. And if Nibelung (in his non-insane state) was there to meet Phanes, perhaps the war would have played out very differently. Granted, I doubt that Phanes would have stopped just because the planet’s owner was home. But part of the agenda as to why Phanes conquered the planet was because it was supposedly “Abandoned” by its creator. Squatters rights, basically. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if Seut was Asmoday’s new master tbh.
Commentaires
Edit: voyager-> koitar
The only thing I can think about her is that she's an agent of the Abyss, weakening worlds to make them vulnerable to destruction, especially because of the flower goddess Nabu Malikata, who we know belonged to the rebellion and mysteriously knew the secrets of the Abyss and I don't think her father, Mr. would nuke you if you only think about using the abyss teach her that.
If Nibelung was home. I bet coexistence could be achieved.
PHANES like with the moons is shown to be capable of diplomacy and isn’t a warmonger who came in blasting. The moons are just shit at their job and didn’t clue the dragons in to PHANES’ needs for NO reason. It’s not even implied they were forced to keep quiet. They were just arguing among themselves the whole time and couldn’t answer Xiuhcoatl when he asked “where the hell was Nibelung and why is this primordial god attacking us”
If Nibelung was home he and PHANES would be able to figure out a way with their combined ability and manipulation of light realm phenomena to allow for both humanity and dragonkind to both exist.
PHANES could s a refugee in a dying universe and has the ability to seal off the outside and protect Teyvat, Nibelung with his mastery of the light realm and his and the other sovereigns help could help terraform some areas to allow humanity to thrive without devolving the dragons nearby.
And the voyager didn’t even care for dragon kind, just Nibelung yet when she came back apparently the dragons are now “noble beings”
The voyager has been doing shit for the love of the game and has been the source of every problem for both dragons and Celestia
Being partially responsible for the mass rebellions during the unified civilization, the other culprits were the moons who were sowing seeds of madness into humanity. Sonnet admits to this in the quest.
Then the voyager is responsible for Kheanri’ah as well as its mentioned multiple times in multiple lore descriptions that the Voyager had star shaped pupils. So it’s likely the Kheanri’ahn race and from her. How? We don’t know yet. So all of Kheanri’ah’s abyss research and the cataclysm is her fault.
And she and Koitar through giving humanity the ability to create life are responsible for the snowland fae who throughout early Snezhnayan history relegated humanity to second class citizens.
That also means everything the cryo archon and the Fatui has done leads back to the Voyager
The angels fall is because she and Koitar convinced what were supposed to be unbiased guides for humanity the angels to succumb to selfish desires. And they lost their forms because of the curse that was supposed to prevent them from doing that.
Literally MOST if not ALL of Teyvat’s problems lead back to the VOYAGER.
there was no war at that time. xiuhcoatl went to ask cause nibelung was absent for long time so he wanted to follow nibelung's trail.
we aren't even sure if this visit took place before or after phane's arrival.
The Master of Light and Flame had sought their help, hoping to pick up the trail of the king who had stepped into the fog between stars.
are you interpretting "shadows" as shades instead of abyss?
dragonlord acting as they pleased implies this was time of leisure not war.
and there was no ruler.
and phanes is mentioned in next paragraph. so, it's pretty good chance that phanes arrived aferwards.
“From that time on, even the endless snowfields turned to blackened earth, while the volcanoes became clogged with ice.
And still they did not — or could not — speak.
Though that was an age when three were still three.”
Unless now I’m reading it and it seems like it’s just saying how long it has been
The Voyager is responsible for the suffering of humans, Angels and dragons. She doesn't consider the dragons or humans as worth anything at all. She called humans as chordate animals, and would have called the dragons as lizards.
Either Vedrfornir prophecied something regarding the Voyager or that Surtalogi learnt what she did and wants to fight her for personal reasons instead of just fighting people to satisfy his own amusement.