This seems to be part of the Unified Civ disaster when Celestia dropped the nails to destroy the rebellion. So yeah, at that point HP didn't want angels to help humanity at all. A new framework was started later with the archon war
imbusthul2026-01-28 18:40
During the rebellion started by the Voyager and Koitar. Man Hyperboria was even into slavery. It only took 10 years of their rule to make humans do slavery, imagine that.
the_dark_artist2026-01-28 18:42
Is that so? I thought the darker history of Hyperborea came from the remnants after the destruction of their home, trying wilder and wilder things to hold on to their power
imbusthul2026-01-28 18:45
Canon said she evacuated them after the Nail hit, so this darker history must have happened during the rule of the Voyager. I mean it's to be expected. For the Voyager, dragons and humans are just different kinds of animals. Lizards in the case of dragons and chordate animals in the case of humans. She was also arming them with weapons, unlimited resources generator and helping them build a Tower to the heavens to attack the heavens as well. We need to know when the events described in the Dawning Frost happened to know the timeline. And even then the survivors were there trying to keep the "bloodline" pure.
the_dark_artist2026-01-28 18:51
Can you point me toward where the slavery thing was mentioned? Let me try to see if I can understand the rough timeline
The weapons etc. aren't a problem, you need them if you are to overthrow the yoke of the heavens.
imbusthul2026-01-28 18:54
It's in Dawning Frost, I believe. Though the "slavery" might be extreme inequality too. Like if they had an infinite resource generator, I am sure the elites will hoard it.
Mtebalanazy2026-01-28 19:08
Also if it’s inequality, it’s probably by having the fae treat humans as second class citizens, because we now know that in the time of the first cryo archon, the fae ruled over the humans and had a slave tread,
So the fae were the ruling class while the humans were the peasants and slaves dying in the snow
imbusthul2026-01-28 19:13
But the thing is though it was the humans who were taught the secrets of creation by Koitar who made the Fae.
No_Strength50562026-01-28 20:09
Yes.
In the FoDG the creations that were made by Hyperborea were specifically described as “*once* weak” so it wouldn’t surprise me if the original generation of Fae got the “some animals are more equal than others” treatment.
Only, the collapse of the human settlements and the wild disorder of elements likely buffed whatever Fae survived, the newly empowered species may have seen an opportunity to turn the tables on their former makers, hence the Fae nobles.
imbusthul2026-01-28 21:12
Didn't Koitar teach humans the secrets of creation in the hopes that one day a creature that's able to fuse with the world is born? Like what would that do. Idk, Koitar seems insane.
No_Strength50562026-01-28 20:15
Obligatory “Dawning Frost” citation:
*"Always remember, Avrelian, my dear child — the one precious gift that fate has granted me." "A thousand-year-old curse runs through your veins, and my only wish is for you to live a life of peace and joy." "No matter what happens, you must never set foot in Nod-Krai, and you must never be taken in by that fool's dream of 'Elysium.'" "No earthly paradise under the moon has ever been built for mortals. All that the Lord of the Sky has created has its boundaries."*
*On a snowy evening gently veiled in the aurora's light, the woman once worshipped as the Maiden had another glimpse of the dream foretelling the fate of her homeland. It had been many years since she bade farewell to that place.*
*Yet, like the creeping frost, those deliberately forgotten whispers always found their way into her warm, quiet dreams, nonetheless. Perhaps it was the new life growing within her that stirred the long-dormant visions, and now, those haunting, twisting phantoms grew ever clearer...*
*At first, they came to her as ceaseless nightmares, countless dreams that came and went endlessly in stifling, unyielding cycles. The seeds of life, born not of natural evolution, fell from silver branches into the ruins of the desolate city. Where featherless creatures, walking upright, enjoyed untold wisdom and the blessings it bestowed. Then came endless greed and selfish desire, masked behind noble-sounding names. And from these followed hatred, curses, betrayal, strife, plunder, slaughter, and kin turning against kin.*
*The cities scattered across the land pursued their own paths of good and evil while the divine envoys stood by in silence, watching all unfold. Until the kings of the lands dared test the eternal heavens. And only then did the great towers fall in flame, burying the cries of the slaves.*
*Like a fleeting shadow vanishing in a single breath, a dreamless dream stretched across a thousand years and then a thousand more. A mountain of crowns in a secret place, beneath a withered tree, forgotten by all.*
*But sometimes even the divine plan falters, and the golden city that rose from the earth... Could not satiate the hearts of mortals, aflame with desire. Hearts swollen with ambition, drawn to the vacant throne of the world, longing to shatter the boundaries between man and god. But like all tragic illusions, that boundless Elysium would crumble. The draconic kings of flame plunged into the dark abyss, and the tides swallowed the white-stone empire whole. The dying world was moving toward its end, with only the shadows of the past lingering in its halls.*
*Countless dreams steeped in blood, tears, and sin... Countless dreams, forever out of reach... Years of division and hatred, carried across generations, cycling endlessly beneath the starless night. And then, a voice unheard, yet more familiar than any she had known... Whispered to her on the bitter end of darkness, with compassion soft and luminous as light.*
*"I shall bring an end to the warriors of this land and raise a boundless Elysium in their place." "I do this not to be king, but so that no other can ever claim that role." Her dream would always shatter just as it reached the moment of promise, and she would be pulled back to the shores of reality. Accompanied by the pale morning light and the faint stirring of the life within her. The young mother let out a quiet sigh as her fingers brushed against the silvery-white talisman resting against her chest. Gazing upon the face of the one she loved beside her, the woman gently placed a hand over her belly and asked...*
*"My child, my dear child... why do you stir so?" "Is it because you sense your mother's heart — are you afraid?"*
jotenha12026-01-29 01:11
Lizards are also chordates. But I don't think humans and dragons in Genshin share any evolutionary link, as humans aren't native to Teyvat.
imbusthul2026-01-29 03:58
And the dragons are light realm creatures too.
Mtebalanazy2026-01-28 19:05
Also some theories that lan gan is is actually the chasm civilisation, and zibai didn’t just guide the people but also tried to stop the nail
But there’s another theory that zibai’s “prison” was actually istaroth trying to save zibai from the nail by putting her in a little time out
And her saying that a day in that prison was like a thousand years in the human realm supports that theory because of the time shenanigans
the_dark_artist2026-01-28 19:56
That would be really interesting! Can't wait for her quest to be out
rW0HgFyxoJhYka2026-01-29 10:09
Imagine her quest is: "Forget about my history, where is Zhongli because its time to dropkick" and then "What is this delicious bread this Bina person keeps offering??"
AngelofIceAndFire2026-01-28 21:36
That would be interesting. Guiding east- to Liyue?
tyjz73_2026-01-28 18:13
Because Lang-Gan was to be punished and Zibai interfered with that punishment.
Adaris1872026-01-28 19:54
Zibai should have known that place was on its way out. After all, that place is Lang Gan. Were it Heer Nao, there would have been no punishment.
PepperOnDaCliff2026-01-28 20:00
Nice one Cyno!
BladeSingularity2026-01-28 21:44
*CYNO*
Muhammad-Ali972026-01-28 21:56
Cyno more!
HorribleDat2026-01-28 23:57
Depends, you can look around in Heer Nao and see if it's going to suffer the same fate.
Fu Cha on the other hand got a lot of potentials.
leolancer922026-01-29 04:23
r/thankscyno
AltairZero2026-01-29 05:40
Thank you captain Sum Ting Wong
easterneas2026-01-29 14:14
I'm dead realizing the phrasing 💀
r/ThanksCyno, you earned one ⬆️
sir_aphim2026-01-28 18:23
I mean Jean loves Klee. But sometimes when Klee disobeys and does something bad, Jean will get mad and punish her. Normally, Jean has no issue with Kaeya doting on Klee. But during her punishment, Kaeya doting on her will also suffer Jean's punishment.
Just replace Jean with an all powerful god, Klee with some subset of humanity who may or may not know what they did wrong, and Kaeya with whoever is attempting to oppose the HP to save people.
ezransshades2026-01-28 19:18
sorry, hi, you explained this well, it's just that it's written "doting"
I just got confused when I read through this the first time xd
sir_aphim2026-01-28 19:22
Oop lol. Spelling... Fixed it XD
squishlight2026-01-28 19:34
Jean is the Heavenly Principles, gotcha.
Oh and that explains why the HP has not been reacting to all the major events recently....her human form is too busy dealing with the nonsense Varka and Alice left her with.
HumsterMKI2026-01-28 19:38
Klee is basically keeping the HP from destroying everything currently.
Tentative_Username2026-01-28 20:51
Why do you think those nails had so much destructive power? She was physically yeeting them into the earth.
LOwOJ2026-01-28 18:29
this is when the fall of unified civilization so this is when HP are mad at angels because of the rebellion of the first angel and voyager so it make sense that some angel helping the humans to evacuate.
Alzusand2026-01-28 18:33
The HP seem to be based on like the stories of the heavenly realm and court ive read in so many novels from china.
like they either do nothing or they are jackasses to everyone even their subordinates to the point that they eventually stack up so much spite and animosity towards them they end up destroyed.
either that or sun wukong screws them over 10X in a row.
PeterGyrich2026-01-28 18:56
According to zibai’s dialogues and as I’m sure people can already figure out >!it’s because Lang gan like many other cities were tainted by the abyss in the war of vengeance. Celestia wanted it cleansed immediately but zibai wanted time to evacuate the people!<
Jibsthelord2026-01-28 23:39
We just making shit up now
Jibsthelord2026-01-29 00:05
"Well clearly they were just messing with the Abyss"
"We have numerous sources saying they were not and the Moon Sisters also confirmed it wasn't just the Abyss, they also damaged Irminsul in the process"
"Well you see my headcanon is that my ENBY blorbo can do no wrong so anyone who suffered due to their actions probably had it coming"
PeterGyrich2026-01-29 01:43
I have no idea what you’re trying to say lol
Top-Idea-17862026-01-29 04:57
What the fuck are you talking about lmao, literally none of what you said makes any sense
imbusthul2026-01-29 05:49
What are you talking about? Like according to the Goddess of Flowers and Nahida the Nails are used to mend the land and heal the corruption.
Count_de_Mits2026-01-29 00:36
>Celestia wanted it cleansed immediately but zibai wanted time to evacuate the people
Glad you could make it, Zibai
Intrepid-Pizza2026-01-29 02:50
You may be the heavenly principles But I am still a daughter of ishtaroth
bookgrinder2026-01-29 09:45
So basically Zibai is HP's granddaughter
SoulNuva2026-01-29 05:22
Glad you could bake it, Zibai
FuckMeShrekSenpai2026-01-29 06:56
It's actually wild how a lot of the people in this subreddit weren't even born when this was making its rounds.
Maltosier2026-01-29 09:27
I don't think the feeling of happy nostalgia I get running into Warcraft references in the wild will ever go away. lol It always makes me spiral some great memories.
_liminal2026-01-29 17:05
holup, if HP=arthas, and HP is currently asleep.... we better get a WOTLK-equivalent cinematic when he wakes up
Kazuha-simp2026-01-29 08:46
For someone who apparently did all of this for humanity, they sure don't seem to really give a fuck about individual humans, more like a bunch of ants that they keep for fun and if some of them die then they die and who cares
Artistic_Cable62182026-01-29 10:18
I think it’s like for HUMANITY sake, not for humans. This is don’t mean they do it for fun, this is just cruel way to maintain humanity
Gaaraks2026-01-29 09:27
Actually, according to zibai's character story one it feels like there is a lot more nuance to what happened. What we have heard seems to have been her POV of the situation, but it seems to me from that story she used the three deadly selves technique (which is supposed to cleanse the impurities, to leave a pure self), in an act of snger and rage, which would have killed her and istaroth preserved her shattered soul just before she dissipated. Probably put her in a prison until a variable came along that could change her fate
Gregamonster2026-01-28 18:58
HP wants a world that's fit for human life. At this point in history, the humans were the ones threatening the world being fit for human life.
So obviously HP is going to take issue with an angel helping the humans ruin Teyvat.
InterestingArt31662026-01-28 19:01
your answer is literally in your screenshots;
"...in doing so, She defied heaven's will"
Kurolegacy272026-01-28 19:25
She defied their will but was doing the thing that Angels were created to do. At that point, it seems more of a contradiction on the part of the HP as they punished her for doing her job
HumsterMKI2026-01-28 19:42
Not really, the Boss sets the rules, enforce the rules and change the rules.
Aka
The Boss says so, you follow.
Neospanner2026-01-28 20:06
Perhaps. But when you program your creation with unconditional love for something, and then you start to abuse that something, then your creation will suffer a conflict between two commands: love the something, or obey the creator.
The boss, in this case, neglected to prioritize "obey me" over "love the something" - and that's on the boss. He gave his creations too much free will. Or maybe it's impossible to created a sufficiently sophisticated servant without also giving them free will.
It seems to be a running theme in the game. Is there a created person in the game who HASN'T disobeyed their creator at one point or another? (For good or for ill...)
semi-average2026-01-29 09:20
Sandrone didnt disobey her creator. She kept asking if there were rules she needed to follow and only choose to make her own patch after repeatedly being told to do what she wanted to do.
Neospanner2026-01-29 14:41
Good catch! I'm sure Sandrone has done some things in her life that Alain probably wouldn't have approved of - but yes, it's remarkably hard to go against the wishes of your creator when your creator's wishes are that you do whatever you want to do.
On the other hand, Sandrone definitely strikes me as the type where if Alain HAD tried to place restrictions on her, she would have bucked them.
Kurolegacy272026-01-28 20:24
So by that logic, do you find that a General is in the wrong for refusing an order that goes against their sworn oath simply because leadership has changed and with it how they use the military? It is the Angels’ directive to guide humanity. To punish them for following that is punishing them for doing their single job and exposes that the HP’s “care” for humanity is purely conditional as they do not care about collateral damage
InterestingArt31662026-01-28 20:34
thats a very weak comparison because HP isnt a "general" or a "king" he is the law, reason and the sworn oath
Kurolegacy272026-01-28 20:38
Law that can change itself depending on how it feels about a given situation isn’t a law, it’s tyranny. “I am the law” is never a line used to describe those who actually have the well-being of others in mind
Effective_Public_2572026-01-28 21:34
heavenly law doesn't change thats the whole point of eternity being the closest to the heavenly principles
Kurolegacy272026-01-28 22:28
It’s literally been stated to us that the Heavenly Principles have acted out of paranoia or fear towards those who seeked power going as far as enacting punishment too great for even so much as testing the rules. Laws borne of fear and paranoia are the furthest thing from heavenly law or eternity as they are neither just nor impartial but instead those of personal feeling, a very much human flaw due to irrationality existing in it as opposed to absolute clarity. Even the fact that they punish Zibai for doing her job as an Angel shows how their very order is not set in stone and can change; they created Angels to guide humanity yet try to place an exception because their own personal judgement
Effective_Public_2572026-01-28 22:54
all from biased sources all the times the HP supposedly acted out of paranoia it was caused by people messing with abyssal energy and even then the HP doesn't strike immediately at the slight abyssal traces its only when civilizations cause giant abyssal outbreaks kanriah was literally allowed to exists for so long and they were messing with abyssal power for most of their existence .
they created angels to guide humanity as a whole when a civ is gonna make the whole of humanity go down cause of dumbfucks messing with powers they shouldnt be messing with then they need to be pruned doesnt make it right but the law is absolute its mentioned in sun and moon that humanity entered a covenant with the primordial one the only thing that was asked of them was to not give in into temptation which is the abyss yet they do
Kurolegacy272026-01-28 23:33
You know, at this point I honestly get the feeling that the only source that Celestia glazers will accept as a non-biased source is gonna be one that basically glazes Celestia and acts as if they can do no wrong.
Our latest source and the one that told us of how the HP acted out of paranoia and fear were the moon sisters, beings who had welcomed the HP as a guest and chose to observe what it was that their laws did for the world. They weren’t some conquered race who just decided to cast the HP in a negative light because they hated them, the information they gave came from them observing the HP and seeing how they went from guest to conquerer to enacting cruel punishments that were described as catastrophic leading them to decide that they had gone too far. Sometimes when the plot continues to reveal how cruel a god is, it’s not just bias talking, it’s the plot revealing that they aren’t quite as benevolent as people would view a god to be
Eironia2026-01-28 22:06
I mean yeah it's a tyrant but in the 40k Machiavellian sense not the egocentric human dictator one.
It's hard to ascribe maliciousness to what's basically been described as a human terraforming AI. To the extent that Tevyat literally has automatic information redaction that characters get around by talking in riddle and verse which the HP cannot parse.
For something interested in minimizing risk to the overall population, the safest response to a plague is always going to be cordon -> eradicate -> repopulate. Sorting through the infected and risking further spread is "human" but no doubt you've seen enough zombie flicks where some determined parent smuggles out their infected child to get why a machine would go for the exterminatus option every time.
Kurolegacy272026-01-28 22:36
Except we’ve also seen it act in egocentric manners as seen with Fontaine in which it cast the entire population of Fontaine in the light of sin, enacting a punishment over an entire nation of people even generations divorced from the original sin for what had been the act of not asking for its permission to create life. There had been no harm that came from said act yet it deemed that only once the people had been dissolved in the sea could the sin be forgiven. These people who had done no wrong and only existed were set to be punished by an egocentric god
Koanos2026-01-28 21:36
> change the rules.
Case in point, follow the Rules of Teyvat, even if they will change.
Alex24222026-01-29 13:38
Hence the question from OP.
The_Lone_Wanderer_042026-01-28 22:08
Its the equivalent of hiring a worker to take care of your garden, then some weeds start growing, yes the workers job is to take care of the plants and a weed is a plant by all rights, but the worker still needs to remove the weeds for the good of the garden as a whole.
Yes angels had to take care of humanity, but that doesn't mean all humans need to be coddled and protected, some humans need to be removed or eliminated for the good of humanity as a whole.
The angels are meant to love "humanity" not individual humans or tribes of humans, some humans are harmfull to "humanity" just like some plants are harmfull to a garden and needs to be eliminated.
Kurolegacy272026-01-28 22:40
Except as we’ve seen, the Heavenly Principles don’t actually care about collateral damage when it comes to them dishing out their punishment or dealing with what they perceive as a problem. Their solution is never the surgical one of removing the weeds, but rather to torch the entire section of the garden where weeds are growing. At this point they are punishing the gardener for digging up the plants in the path of destruction and moving them elsewhere while the Heavenly Principles takes a flamethrower to the weeds
The_Lone_Wanderer_042026-01-29 00:37
The HP is a machine, its purely logical not emotional, its mandate is to keep humanity alove as a species, if there is a city that is threat to humanity and teyvats ability to be safe from the Abyss it will take out the threat in the most efficient way possible, in this case celestial nails.
Its not here to baby all humans, it is here to keep Teyvat safe via its rules and to keep humanity alive, its all about logic and efficiency and not emotions, in a case like this or Khanreiha where the people of a city is a threat to humanity the most efficient thing to do is to nuke then to ensure they don't just continue to do the same elsewhere. Its harsh but assuming the HP is a machine it makes perfect sense.
Kurolegacy272026-01-29 01:49
The HP being a machine is still only a theory not something the game has outright stated. And even if it were to be an AI, we have seen numerous mechanical life forms throughout the story who have thoughts and emotions of their own. Just look at the likes of the Dragon Sovereign Lords, Scaramouche and Sandrone all of whom are mechanical life forms but have emotions that are indistinguishable from an organic life form.
And what you say is it not babying humanity is it placing it in a gilded cage. It basically runs by that you either play its way or no way and if the people who are around you have to be collateral than so be it. It doesn’t genuinely care about humanity only the idea of it as it doesn’t genuinely everything to stagnate the advancement of it. And while you say that Khaenri’ah was a threat, what exactly about the people of Fontaine was a threat to the world that they suffered under a 500 year prophecy in which people who were many generations divorced from the original Fontainians were still under such a judgement? Nothing about their existence was in any way a harm to the world yet as far as the HP was concerned, they deserved to die. What exactly is the logic there?
The_Lone_Wanderer_042026-01-29 06:48
Your missing the most important part, the Genshin universe is dead, everything outsode of Teyvat is taken over by the Abyss, the Genshin universe is dying.
So yes you have to play by its rules, because its rules is the ONLY reason Teyvat still exists, the human civilizations that advance too far ALL turn against the HP or starts seeking the Abyss for power, both of which leads to the death of Humanity. The people on Zobais era was literally rebelling against the HP, thus the celestial nail, the people of Deshret and Khanreiha brought the Abyss into Teyvat, thus had to be eliminated.
And the HP assuming it is the ship AI has already been stated why it no longer has emotions, in the description it jot only disconected its IAM it also stated that after thousands of years of travel which was akin to torture to it, it didn't feel moved by seeing planets dying because it has seen it happen too many times.
Teyvat is the only planet with the potential to survive the Abyss, but its potential isn't perfect, the rules and systems the HP made protects Teyvat from the Abyss but humanity and others can and often are the cause of said systens failing and when it does Teyvat is finished, look at Dedhret and forbidden knowledge and how it almost destroyed irmunsul and in turn teyvat, same with Khanreiha.
This isn't just about stagnating, this is about a dying unoverse and humans constant need for more, more power, more controll, more everything even at the cost of the only things keeping their world safe from the destruction.
And we do not know why the Fontainians where doomed, or even how involved the HP was in that fate or the consequences of messing with the Primordial sea since just like Phlogisten and Khuvaki no doubt it too plays a huge role in the systems keeping Teyvat safe. Usually the HP is very direct in its punishment, from celestiao nails to sending the shades or Archons.
But with Fontaine it was a whale brought in by Surologi, woken up by child, that Skirk was too late to stop, a bunch of things colminating in the flood.
And also the people of Fontaine wasn't going to die, the HP wouldn't see it as that, it would see it as fixing something and returning it to its true form, fontainians where Oceanid mimicks not human, and they didn't die when disolved they formed back into oceanids, thus the HP would not consider them human nor consider this a punishment or death, because all it would see is oceanid mimicks turning back into oceanids undoing the changes that Egeria made putting things back in its natural state.
Gaaraks2026-01-28 23:32
"Love humanity!"
"I will" "oh no, humans are gonna die due to the heaven's punishment, I can't stand by and let my beloved humanity die, I must save them from this."
"How dare you help humanity!"
**confused horse noises**
HyenaFun61432026-01-28 23:57
Yeah it’s kinda contradicting on how Phanes (Heavenly Principles) has their view for humanity, I mean the “Before Sun and Moon” book said Phanes is happy as long as humans are happy but the Divine Nails they used to as punishment to those that seek power (Columbina talking with the 3 Moon Sisters) was too extreme as stated by Sonnet and the curse to turn the half blood people of Khaenri'ah to monsters (literal children too) that can still die (doesn’t solve the Abyss corruption or didn’t have any corruption to begin with) seems too twisted to do
I honestly think that Phanes doesn’t really care for humanity and wants some humans to live while the rest that perish is just collateral damage that can be replaced, I mean Orobashi and the faithful servants to Phanes from Enkanomiya were to be all killed since they learned Phanes’ name (Hym of the North vol 1 says it’s forbidden) and in all honesty it seems that they want to keep their divine image without their name being spoken or known
TheSuperContributor2026-01-29 03:28
God: give human free will
Human make use of their free will
God: nah, not like this. Flood-jutsu!
kaikalaila2026-01-29 11:01
actually the flood is because a certain someone caved to the multiple consciousness of oceanid's demands to be illegally transformed into humans...
Zombie-Pinya2026-01-28 19:14
Guidance is the pretense; control is the actual reason. Kinda like the archons now I guess.
Fit_Inside_65062026-01-28 19:31
HP wants to appear on all your artifacts specifically when you don't need them.
TheScalieDragon2026-01-28 19:44
Didn't she say she made that up
_Carcinus_2026-01-28 20:07
To not upset a small child too much, yes.
Economy_Pass54522026-01-28 22:05
She said it's made up so that it remains a story and is less likely to get erased from the world.
Jibsthelord2026-01-28 23:41
This is genshin impact my guy, that just makes it more reliable
AsherOfTheVoid2026-01-28 19:49
Zibai is an angel?
imbusthul2026-01-29 05:53
Yes. Divine Envoy is the title given to Angels
anyway2008942026-01-28 19:55
So we have moon girls imprisoned on both sides
dozenofroses2026-01-28 20:17
HP is AI, of course it makes no sense and ends up destroying everything.
PantheraAuroris2026-01-28 23:38
HP is an authoritarian tyrant. As mentioned in the recent Nod-Krai quests, they are afraid of human ambition and will do anything to tame it back.
To keep their regime going, they have to punish disobedience harshly, or they will become obsolete when humans figure out how to become gods. If one Fatui Harbinger can end-run around them and snag the moons and become a near-omnipotent being, they are *fucked* if they allow humans to just do their thing. Dottore wasn't even immortal. He just did this in *one human lifespan.*
This is why they went after Egeria for daring to make humans (even though humans already existed, can't let anyone else create people), why Zibai had to be punished (because otherwise HP would be contradicted, can't have that), so on. They need to reinforce their regime or they topple immediately.
Jibsthelord2026-01-28 23:41
When someone has the exact same opinion as you but are an Abyss Order goon so you don't really wanna agree
PantheraAuroris2026-01-28 23:46
Join the dark side, we have cookies ;)
Jibsthelord2026-01-28 23:56
You're the Abyss Order dude, those cookies are your entire budget
Preston dead, Enjou left, the only named character of any importance you got left is Haden and that's practically -1 character
PantheraAuroris2026-01-29 00:02
Who the heck is Preston?
I hope Enjou returns soon, like no really, he's the best dang character in this whole game XD
Jibsthelord2026-01-29 00:02
The blue guy who went after Boreas, the first Abyss herald we ever met with Dain
PantheraAuroris2026-01-29 00:37
When did he get a name? Is that a fanon thing, I assume? Is that just a nickname from Presager?
Also, the Abyssals are immortal. He's out there somewhere.
Jibsthelord2026-01-29 02:42
Presager -> Preston
Living_Thunder2026-01-28 23:46
Making a call for a tactical nail to your current abyss order base
PantheraAuroris2026-01-28 23:50
But you didn't say I'm wrong ;)
Living_Thunder2026-01-28 23:53
Idk I think it's pretty obvious that they mantain the authority of life for themselves and don't forgive someone tampering with any of the authorities. We have enough info to know the nails were dropped because of civilizations tampering with the abyss (Khaenriah was allowed as long as they kept to themselves in their land. They were destroyed once they made it everyone's problem)
PantheraAuroris2026-01-29 00:03
To drop character, as it were, it has bounced back and forth. We just got lore that the HP actually punished civilizations for getting too powerful, not for playing with the Abyss per se. It's just that the Abyss is a good way to get power at the expense of a lot of other stuff. But it was pointed out that they were well behaved until they became afraid of human ambition. They want to put a cap on the power of anyone down below.
Living_Thunder2026-01-29 00:06
I don't take the moon sister talk seriously until further notice because it makes absolute no sense with every other piece of lore we had, like the nails didn't drop until the funerary war or the fact that they say "yeah he came in peace but then suddenly he started to be afraid of humans seeking power" as if the heavens didn't wage a 40 year war against the dragons over claim of Teyvat
This talk even kinda entirely contradicts artifact lore that was released in 6.3
imbusthul2026-01-29 05:56
The Moons are too ignorant. They did not care about the dragons and only saw the Nails getting dropped but not the Rebellion happening below. They guided people from the headquarters of the Rebellion but know nothing of the Voyager or Koitar and the problems they created.
namelessfinality2026-01-29 03:33
Then why do visions exist. HP doesn't fear human ambition, they are more like an overcontroling parent that thinks they are the right way or they need to be punished. Egeria wasn't punished for making humans, she was punished for doing so without HPs permission. Zibai was punished for disobeying is rules.
HP is like the SMT Lawful endings where Rules is above all else
PantheraAuroris2026-01-29 05:37
Visions exist to keep an eye on the super-ambitious, I presume.
namelessfinality2026-01-29 08:19
I really doubt HP would give out fragments of the fundamentals authorities of the world to people so he can keep an eye on them.
kaikalaila2026-01-29 11:08
its kind of weird that so many stuff got added to that.
A monitor device?
Something to absorb Will energy?
Something that amplify ambition? Those at inazuma who's vision got confiscated lost their drive and succumb to the realization of what they did in the past.
Something to boost someone when they reach enlighten or are in need of power or allow them to better control element?
imbusthul2026-01-29 05:58
Well Egeria made humans that cannot function as humans. They are just water mimics in the form of humans. They cannot reproduce either after all.
namelessfinality2026-01-29 08:18
Yup it didn't matter whether Egeria was successful for not, it's that she broke one of HP's Laws that matter.
No_Animator90792026-01-29 14:16
Exactly. Why would HP give immense power in form of visions if their main concern is a uprising/rebellion from humans
Living_Thunder2026-01-28 23:45
Wait until the lantern rite quest
Artistic_You41892026-01-29 00:20
Just wait for lantern rite story and you will know this b is lying through her teeth. Everytime inferior beings doesn't understand the way of heaven, they dubbed it misfortune and punishment while it's actually not. Typical genshin red herring misdirections
Sir_Tea_Of_Bags2026-01-29 00:25
I dunno. Sounds exactly like out of touch management to me.
TheVoid0002026-01-29 03:14
They were made to do what HP want them to do.
HP want them to guide. They guide mortal. This in turn lead to a connection and a bond between them and the mortal they were assigned to guide.
Then HP want to punish the mortal. But because of the bond they made, they decide to rebel and protect mortal instead.
They defy HP, so they got punished. Simple as that
Remember that HP is rumored to be >!The Twin Spaceship A.I!<. So being flexible is not part of their nature, being rigid is. They are what they are and what they do, its their duty after all.
nadsjinx2026-01-29 05:21
Arent this and other posts about characters not yet mentioned in the official game considered spoilers? spoiler tags should atleast be used
FatalWarrior2026-01-29 15:36
~~...No? It's only spoilers if its in an official media but there hasn't been enough time or distribution for it to be commonly available information.~~
~~This is just speculations and theories.~~
Edit: Right, you meant Zibai herself. Kinda, yes, but not because it's not in game. Hoyo made the video available, but it's still recent.
Whilyam2026-01-29 06:12
Shhh... The writers haven't decided that yet. Don't worry, when the time comes to sell the shades or Phanes themselves we'll learn that they're just twying their best and are actually just a buncha widdle girlfailures that just oopsied a few cosmic numbers into the planet because it was just too stwessful and also they each have a quirky little hobby?? Omg??? Don't you just want to forgive them if all their cwimes and pull out your cwedit card?
Adventurous-Fail-5372026-01-29 08:39
Or uou can just read the lore and get where Hoyo’s trying to go with HP’s character but sure make shit up to be mad about.
No_Animator90792026-01-29 14:01
Lmao ever since the game was released the HP was always trying for the betterment of humanity. He did a lot of bad stuff, but most of it was to help humanity and punish those who stood in the way of said help.
Panzerfaust_Style2026-01-29 08:21
HP is tsundere at this point.
"n-no I didn't want you to guide them like this... b-baka!"
LUMMOZ_Ots2026-01-29 15:58
Probably some Clanker stuff
Kentaiga2026-01-29 17:36
Back in Zibai’s time HP simply did not like anyone delaying or preventing her utter destruction of those who violated her will.
In modern Teyvat, clearly the only thing HP wants to continue her years-long nap.
Commentaires
The weapons etc. aren't a problem, you need them if you are to overthrow the yoke of the heavens.
So the fae were the ruling class while the humans were the peasants and slaves dying in the snow
In the FoDG the creations that were made by Hyperborea were specifically described as “*once* weak” so it wouldn’t surprise me if the original generation of Fae got the “some animals are more equal than others” treatment.
Only, the collapse of the human settlements and the wild disorder of elements likely buffed whatever Fae survived, the newly empowered species may have seen an opportunity to turn the tables on their former makers, hence the Fae nobles.
*"Always remember, Avrelian, my dear child — the one precious gift that fate has granted me." "A thousand-year-old curse runs through your veins, and my only wish is for you to live a life of peace and joy." "No matter what happens, you must never set foot in Nod-Krai, and you must never be taken in by that fool's dream of 'Elysium.'" "No earthly paradise under the moon has ever been built for mortals. All that the Lord of the Sky has created has its boundaries."*
*On a snowy evening gently veiled in the aurora's light, the woman once worshipped as the Maiden had another glimpse of the dream foretelling the fate of her homeland. It had been many years since she bade farewell to that place.*
*Yet, like the creeping frost, those deliberately forgotten whispers always found their way into her warm, quiet dreams, nonetheless. Perhaps it was the new life growing within her that stirred the long-dormant visions, and now, those haunting, twisting phantoms grew ever clearer...*
*At first, they came to her as ceaseless nightmares, countless dreams that came and went endlessly in stifling, unyielding cycles. The seeds of life, born not of natural evolution, fell from silver branches into the ruins of the desolate city. Where featherless creatures, walking upright, enjoyed untold wisdom and the blessings it bestowed. Then came endless greed and selfish desire, masked behind noble-sounding names. And from these followed hatred, curses, betrayal, strife, plunder, slaughter, and kin turning against kin.*
*The cities scattered across the land pursued their own paths of good and evil while the divine envoys stood by in silence, watching all unfold. Until the kings of the lands dared test the eternal heavens. And only then did the great towers fall in flame, burying the cries of the slaves.*
*Like a fleeting shadow vanishing in a single breath, a dreamless dream stretched across a thousand years and then a thousand more. A mountain of crowns in a secret place, beneath a withered tree, forgotten by all.*
*But sometimes even the divine plan falters, and the golden city that rose from the earth... Could not satiate the hearts of mortals, aflame with desire. Hearts swollen with ambition, drawn to the vacant throne of the world, longing to shatter the boundaries between man and god. But like all tragic illusions, that boundless Elysium would crumble. The draconic kings of flame plunged into the dark abyss, and the tides swallowed the white-stone empire whole. The dying world was moving toward its end, with only the shadows of the past lingering in its halls.*
*Countless dreams steeped in blood, tears, and sin... Countless dreams, forever out of reach... Years of division and hatred, carried across generations, cycling endlessly beneath the starless night. And then, a voice unheard, yet more familiar than any she had known... Whispered to her on the bitter end of darkness, with compassion soft and luminous as light.*
*"I shall bring an end to the warriors of this land and raise a boundless Elysium in their place." "I do this not to be king, but so that no other can ever claim that role." Her dream would always shatter just as it reached the moment of promise, and she would be pulled back to the shores of reality. Accompanied by the pale morning light and the faint stirring of the life within her. The young mother let out a quiet sigh as her fingers brushed against the silvery-white talisman resting against her chest. Gazing upon the face of the one she loved beside her, the woman gently placed a hand over her belly and asked...*
*"My child, my dear child... why do you stir so?" "Is it because you sense your mother's heart — are you afraid?"*
But there’s another theory that zibai’s “prison” was actually istaroth trying to save zibai from the nail by putting her in a little time out
And her saying that a day in that prison was like a thousand years in the human realm supports that theory because of the time shenanigans
Fu Cha on the other hand got a lot of potentials.
r/ThanksCyno, you earned one ⬆️
Just replace Jean with an all powerful god, Klee with some subset of humanity who may or may not know what they did wrong, and Kaeya with whoever is attempting to oppose the HP to save people.
I just got confused when I read through this the first time xd
Oh and that explains why the HP has not been reacting to all the major events recently....her human form is too busy dealing with the nonsense Varka and Alice left her with.
like they either do nothing or they are jackasses to everyone even their subordinates to the point that they eventually stack up so much spite and animosity towards them they end up destroyed.
either that or sun wukong screws them over 10X in a row.
"We have numerous sources saying they were not and the Moon Sisters also confirmed it wasn't just the Abyss, they also damaged Irminsul in the process"
"Well you see my headcanon is that my ENBY blorbo can do no wrong so anyone who suffered due to their actions probably had it coming"
Glad you could make it, Zibai
So obviously HP is going to take issue with an angel helping the humans ruin Teyvat.
"...in doing so, She defied heaven's will"
Aka
The Boss says so, you follow.
The boss, in this case, neglected to prioritize "obey me" over "love the something" - and that's on the boss. He gave his creations too much free will. Or maybe it's impossible to created a sufficiently sophisticated servant without also giving them free will.
It seems to be a running theme in the game. Is there a created person in the game who HASN'T disobeyed their creator at one point or another? (For good or for ill...)
On the other hand, Sandrone definitely strikes me as the type where if Alain HAD tried to place restrictions on her, she would have bucked them.
they created angels to guide humanity as a whole when a civ is gonna make the whole of humanity go down cause of dumbfucks messing with powers they shouldnt be messing with then they need to be pruned doesnt make it right but the law is absolute its mentioned in sun and moon that humanity entered a covenant with the primordial one the only thing that was asked of them was to not give in into temptation which is the abyss yet they do
Our latest source and the one that told us of how the HP acted out of paranoia and fear were the moon sisters, beings who had welcomed the HP as a guest and chose to observe what it was that their laws did for the world. They weren’t some conquered race who just decided to cast the HP in a negative light because they hated them, the information they gave came from them observing the HP and seeing how they went from guest to conquerer to enacting cruel punishments that were described as catastrophic leading them to decide that they had gone too far. Sometimes when the plot continues to reveal how cruel a god is, it’s not just bias talking, it’s the plot revealing that they aren’t quite as benevolent as people would view a god to be
It's hard to ascribe maliciousness to what's basically been described as a human terraforming AI. To the extent that Tevyat literally has automatic information redaction that characters get around by talking in riddle and verse which the HP cannot parse.
For something interested in minimizing risk to the overall population, the safest response to a plague is always going to be cordon -> eradicate -> repopulate. Sorting through the infected and risking further spread is "human" but no doubt you've seen enough zombie flicks where some determined parent smuggles out their infected child to get why a machine would go for the exterminatus option every time.
Case in point, follow the Rules of Teyvat, even if they will change.
Yes angels had to take care of humanity, but that doesn't mean all humans need to be coddled and protected, some humans need to be removed or eliminated for the good of humanity as a whole.
The angels are meant to love "humanity" not individual humans or tribes of humans, some humans are harmfull to "humanity" just like some plants are harmfull to a garden and needs to be eliminated.
Its not here to baby all humans, it is here to keep Teyvat safe via its rules and to keep humanity alive, its all about logic and efficiency and not emotions, in a case like this or Khanreiha where the people of a city is a threat to humanity the most efficient thing to do is to nuke then to ensure they don't just continue to do the same elsewhere. Its harsh but assuming the HP is a machine it makes perfect sense.
And what you say is it not babying humanity is it placing it in a gilded cage. It basically runs by that you either play its way or no way and if the people who are around you have to be collateral than so be it. It doesn’t genuinely care about humanity only the idea of it as it doesn’t genuinely everything to stagnate the advancement of it. And while you say that Khaenri’ah was a threat, what exactly about the people of Fontaine was a threat to the world that they suffered under a 500 year prophecy in which people who were many generations divorced from the original Fontainians were still under such a judgement? Nothing about their existence was in any way a harm to the world yet as far as the HP was concerned, they deserved to die. What exactly is the logic there?
So yes you have to play by its rules, because its rules is the ONLY reason Teyvat still exists, the human civilizations that advance too far ALL turn against the HP or starts seeking the Abyss for power, both of which leads to the death of Humanity. The people on Zobais era was literally rebelling against the HP, thus the celestial nail, the people of Deshret and Khanreiha brought the Abyss into Teyvat, thus had to be eliminated.
And the HP assuming it is the ship AI has already been stated why it no longer has emotions, in the description it jot only disconected its IAM it also stated that after thousands of years of travel which was akin to torture to it, it didn't feel moved by seeing planets dying because it has seen it happen too many times.
Teyvat is the only planet with the potential to survive the Abyss, but its potential isn't perfect, the rules and systems the HP made protects Teyvat from the Abyss but humanity and others can and often are the cause of said systens failing and when it does Teyvat is finished, look at Dedhret and forbidden knowledge and how it almost destroyed irmunsul and in turn teyvat, same with Khanreiha.
This isn't just about stagnating, this is about a dying unoverse and humans constant need for more, more power, more controll, more everything even at the cost of the only things keeping their world safe from the destruction.
And we do not know why the Fontainians where doomed, or even how involved the HP was in that fate or the consequences of messing with the Primordial sea since just like Phlogisten and Khuvaki no doubt it too plays a huge role in the systems keeping Teyvat safe. Usually the HP is very direct in its punishment, from celestiao nails to sending the shades or Archons.
But with Fontaine it was a whale brought in by Surologi, woken up by child, that Skirk was too late to stop, a bunch of things colminating in the flood.
And also the people of Fontaine wasn't going to die, the HP wouldn't see it as that, it would see it as fixing something and returning it to its true form, fontainians where Oceanid mimicks not human, and they didn't die when disolved they formed back into oceanids, thus the HP would not consider them human nor consider this a punishment or death, because all it would see is oceanid mimicks turning back into oceanids undoing the changes that Egeria made putting things back in its natural state.
"I will" "oh no, humans are gonna die due to the heaven's punishment, I can't stand by and let my beloved humanity die, I must save them from this."
"How dare you help humanity!"
**confused horse noises**
I honestly think that Phanes doesn’t really care for humanity and wants some humans to live while the rest that perish is just collateral damage that can be replaced, I mean Orobashi and the faithful servants to Phanes from Enkanomiya were to be all killed since they learned Phanes’ name (Hym of the North vol 1 says it’s forbidden) and in all honesty it seems that they want to keep their divine image without their name being spoken or known
Human make use of their free will
God: nah, not like this. Flood-jutsu!
To keep their regime going, they have to punish disobedience harshly, or they will become obsolete when humans figure out how to become gods. If one Fatui Harbinger can end-run around them and snag the moons and become a near-omnipotent being, they are *fucked* if they allow humans to just do their thing. Dottore wasn't even immortal. He just did this in *one human lifespan.*
This is why they went after Egeria for daring to make humans (even though humans already existed, can't let anyone else create people), why Zibai had to be punished (because otherwise HP would be contradicted, can't have that), so on. They need to reinforce their regime or they topple immediately.
Preston dead, Enjou left, the only named character of any importance you got left is Haden and that's practically -1 character
I hope Enjou returns soon, like no really, he's the best dang character in this whole game XD
Also, the Abyssals are immortal. He's out there somewhere.
This talk even kinda entirely contradicts artifact lore that was released in 6.3
HP is like the SMT Lawful endings where Rules is above all else
A monitor device?
Something to absorb Will energy?
Something that amplify ambition? Those at inazuma who's vision got confiscated lost their drive and succumb to the realization of what they did in the past.
Something to boost someone when they reach enlighten or are in need of power or allow them to better control element?
HP want them to guide. They guide mortal. This in turn lead to a connection and a bond between them and the mortal they were assigned to guide.
Then HP want to punish the mortal. But because of the bond they made, they decide to rebel and protect mortal instead.
They defy HP, so they got punished. Simple as that
Remember that HP is rumored to be >!The Twin Spaceship A.I!<. So being flexible is not part of their nature, being rigid is. They are what they are and what they do, its their duty after all.
~~This is just speculations and theories.~~
Edit: Right, you meant Zibai herself. Kinda, yes, but not because it's not in game. Hoyo made the video available, but it's still recent.
"n-no I didn't want you to guide them like this... b-baka!"
In modern Teyvat, clearly the only thing HP wants to continue her years-long nap.