Which would be a better team ?
Varesa/C4 Iansan/Ineffa/Columbina
OR
Zibai/C2 Illuga/Gorou/Columbina
I am stuck between choosing Ineffa and Zibai as I want both but can't. I don't want Flins though. I only want Ineffa because the wheelchair comp is too broken ( I have Lauma and Columbina).
OR
Zibai/C2 Illuga/Gorou/Columbina
I am stuck between choosing Ineffa and Zibai as I want both but can't. I don't want Flins though. I only want Ineffa because the wheelchair comp is too broken ( I have Lauma and Columbina).
Commentaires
Zibai is great if you don't have any other Nod Krai 5 stars (which you do). So Ineffa is the more "meta" choice.
Columbina-Ineffa core is really good, but it isn't better than Zibai's core team
On paper dps is completely meaningless in this game where the most important aspect is having teams that can do the boss' mechanics.
> Both "team cores" are dual element archetypes that focus on one primary element as the main source of dmg: lunar crystallize Geo + hydro, and lunar charged electro + hydro, geo and electro being their main source of dmg respectively. Both cores are the same, and both have "filler" characters on their third and fourth slots, but Zibai's core while being more restrictive, it's also more powerful and all her BiS teammates already come in her banner.
This means basically nothing. If we are speaking to getting BIS team most efficiently then OP should go for Nefer and over either option. She does the same DPS and they would only need to pull Nefer. As opposed to hoping they get cons for Illuga on the Zibai banner which is far less likely.
> Her value is even greater if you take into account how hard it's to get some top tier geo characters,
Which no one gives a shit about cause there is maybe 2 bosses in the entire game who care about Geo and both of them are easily solved by existing characters.
> while in electro already exists Varesa, whose "team core" is pure electro, so you can actually make more archetypes with her depending on the situation (lunar-charged will always need those 2 elements, you can't make a lunar-charged electro character work without hydro, which also restricts their usage in Imaginarium theater, the same happens with lunar crystallize, but Zibai team is just better than a no-Flins lunar charged team) Columbina-Ineffa core is really good, but it isn't better than Zibai's core team
I don't know what Varesa has to do with this, she is more of an overload dps than an Lunar Charged one and OP's suggested comp with the Lunar Charge wheelchair is a waste of both cores so its not worth debating.
You also are making an extremely bizarre argument since Zibai has the exact same downside as Ineffa with no exceptions, they both want a hydro and they both vastly prefer that hydro to be Columbina. The only difference is Zibai loses a lot from her passive when she is not in exclusively Geo or Hydro teams while Ineffa doesn't NEED to be in a Lunar Charge team. She operates just fine in Overload, she can work in Hyperbloom and if Quicken was real she would be fine there too.
Zibai's teams do well if you invest EVERYTHING into them which consists of vertically investing into Zibai. The only way to do that as an f2p or a low spender would be to not have rolled for any other Nod Krai 5 stars except Columbina. Thus, Zibai is great for accounts that do not have any other Nod Krai 5 stars.
As a final addendum too, currently all Zibai calcs are based on on paper assumptions and rotational theories and not actual hard data using that to make meta calls against characters who have been tested on training dummy is just silly. Ineffa is a known quantity who has consistently gotten better over the course of the patch cycle, the only rationality behind arguing against getting Ineffa right now is just because someone likes Zibai's design, but no self-respecting meta aficionado would ever argue that Ineffa is not the better pull. She is inarguably the most versatile character in the game.
Okay that's literally not true when they keep increasing the HP bar and you need to start building some future proof units with high dps at the lowest possible cost (Zibai is 1 or 2 cost, you don't need Illuga at C6 for her to be already stronger than average Columbina-Ineffa team without Flins, which is 3 cost)
>If we are speaking to getting BIS team most efficiently then OP should go for Nefer and over either option. She does the same DPS and they would only need to pull Nefer.
How so? Nefer NEEDS Lauma way more, in fact that's a team even more restricted since Columbina-Lauma core is not as great as Columbina-Ineffa, so that's always a "3 cost" team. It's also efficient to go for Lauma-Nefer-Bina but that's not the point here since we're arguing about "two-members core" teams which is cost 2. Funny thing, if you start comparing 3 cost teams, Zibai C1 with Bina already reaches the level of the other two even without C6 Illuga (she surpases them if she's C1 and Illuga is C6 which is very possible at that investment on her banner)
>As opposed to hoping they get cons for Illuga on the Zibai banner which is far less likely
Again you don't really need Illuga constellations as much as you need a "good dps" for Ineffa-Bina, or Lauma for Nefer. The dps loss is not that high compared to them (already >120k)
>no one gives a shit about cause there is maybe 2 bosses in the entire game who care about Geo and both of them are easily solved by existing characters.
Right now boss design doesn't follow any patterns, they only shill our current archetype on banner so that's not really an argument. There are bosses for lunar mechanics (whichever of the three), and also bosses for specific reactions (they'll keep going on with this). This'll keep going on and that's it, you can brute force some of them with certain elements but only with a very good amount of team dps without any external buff.
>I don't know what Varesa has to do with this, she is more of an overload dps than an Lunar Charged one and OP's suggested comp with the Lunar Charge wheelchair is a waste of both cores so its not worth debating.
It's worth talking since varesa's teams are way less restrictive since she can go pure overload, or pure electro-charged. Lunar-charged is the same, bosses don't favour specific "lunar-charged", they're either electro+hydro shill, or lunar reaction shill. If you already have a solid electro dps like varesa, then you're better off getting characters from another element You may lack, like geo for example, where we have no top tier units aside from Xilonen.
>Zibai's teams do well if you invest EVERYTHING into them which consists of vertically investing into Zibai.
Again you don't need Illuga's cons 😪. C6 Illuga is to compare Zibai team to the other two nod krai full teams (Flins-Ineffa-Columbina and Nefer-Lauma-Columbina) who are pretty close.
Zibai with a very low constellation Illuga and Columbina is already better than the other Columbina-Ineffa variants with any non-Flins dps.
>Thus, Zibai is great for accounts that do not have any other Nod Krai 5 stars.
Yeah that's true since that means they have enough primos to get a 3 cost or more Zibai team which is already better than the other two (until cost 7 or so)
>As a final addendum too, currently all Zibai calcs are based on on paper assumptions and rotational theories and not actual hard data using that to make meta calls against characters who have been tested on training dummy is just silly.
Well that's true but Zibai's base combo is very easy though? They haven't proved any other more elaborated or harder combo, just normal chain plus E, and that already gives solid results. In any case her dps could grow in actual practice if someone manages to cut some rotation lose ends or find out a most elaborated combo
>but no self-respecting meta aficionado would ever argue that Ineffa is not the better pull. She is inarguably the most versatile character in the game.
Well you see. "Meta aficionado" is a very funny term since we're talking about optimal solutions. While the core Columbina-Ineffa is very strong, you'll start to struggle the moment they raise again the dps requirement, and there won't be any other solution than pulling for Flins to complete the "real" team. Having a core team with many possible teammates but without a "BiS" solution is not really the way. As I said, that core already requires TWO elements, and when the challenge counters one of the two, then you'll struggle (the same happens for Zibai). This means on IT you need both elements available, the same for lunar crystallize. On abyss you need a strong and solid team dps, and in stygian you need either a VERY strong team, or a shilled team. So where's your optimal solution here? Because I don't really see it. You can play against a lot of bosses with Columbina and Ineffa, but you can't do anything against a boss with electro immunity or high electro resistance. The only real scenarios where you can actually say it's better is when you need ANOTHER element outside hydro and electro with your core team, like for example dendro or pyro, and the enemy has a specific mechanic that requires you to hit it with that third element... (Guess what, that applies to literally almost every dual core with no elemental team restrictions like Nilou)