I let people play how they want, pull who they want, and make teams with whatever they want. Much easier to get along doing that than to tell other people how to play their single player game
asilvertintedrose2026-01-30 08:53
The one advice I do give people is to try using Favonius weapons for a few days on their characters before trying to pull the weapon banner
SecyaDenali2026-01-30 08:59
I have a motto when in doubt Fav it out.
Fav Rosaria, Fav Xiangling and yes i do have r5 Catch but fav be favving.
Mango0272026-01-30 14:18
I put the catch on XL just to free up a fav lance for someone else.
Worth it
bk3dd2026-01-30 09:03
This always reminds me of how absurdly broken the early chars and weapons were.
gryphon_duke2026-01-30 10:28
wow. thanks. i think you just undid 4 years of numbermaxing trauma and doubled 1 year's worth of fav rehab progression
Hatexar2026-01-30 10:40
All in fav
NumericZero2026-01-30 13:25
Honestly no shame in using Fav
They are perfectly fine weapons
It’s like a Beat up but old reliable car
Gets you to point a to point b
Dark_Fury_2026-01-30 13:49
WE PUT FAVONIOUS ON EVERYONE
eklatea2026-01-30 09:03
based
also yvonne pfp!!!
LivingASlothsLife2026-01-30 09:11
Yvonne makes me happy :D
Demon-Cat2026-01-30 10:27
What game, if I may ask?
Physical-Command21302026-01-30 09:15
can f2ps even have a chance in weapon banner ?
pc_player_yt2026-01-30 09:28
if you save up for it
ejsks2026-01-30 13:27
It‘s crazy how some people get overly defensive about sometimes tho
I had someone yell at and insult me once in a thread where some guy asked if his Hu Tao team was still meta, because I said the team was outdated but still a got comfort team.
Genshin is def a more casual game but you can’t be a casual if you lose your shit over people minmaxing
Supreme-Machine-V22026-01-30 16:33
It gets annoying though when someone asks for characters to pull if they are meta or not and half of the comments are "Pull for who you like more!"
Like seriously give the advice people asked for instead of saying the same 50th thing
The_4th_Wonderland2026-01-30 08:23
This isn't exclusive to Genshin, I actually find Reddit as a whole to have more anti-metagame players especially subs like r/videogames
TWOSimurgh2026-01-30 08:34
The bad players spend more time bitching on reddit than they do playing the game.
Namikaza2026-01-30 09:23
Ultimately if you try to understand where this feeling is coming from, you can see this as a reflection of society’s outlook on success in an increasingly inequitable world.
People are growing more disillusioned to their chances of a better life and forced to work undesirable jobs to meet ends meet.
This same issue is reflected in games like Genshin, where players are psychologically manipulated to do something undesirable (e.g spend or pull for strong characters they don’t like) even in their leisure.
Seifty_First2026-01-30 10:40
Damn this hit home.
m0bw0w2026-01-30 09:24
My only problem with meta gamers is that games get optimized for them. The hardest content gets optimized for people maximizing their damage, so then when I come in to play for fun, I cant clear and get the rewards. Like, Id love the SO weapon skins bjt I'd have to invest so much into playstyles I dont want to in order to get them.
fallenmamba2026-01-30 09:36
You can't eat your cake and have it too. Every endgame except for possibly Dire can be cleared completely F2P. Even Dire can be cleared F2P, but you have to plan your pulls (and therefore can't just pull who you like). We've been asking for harder modes since the game's launch, and HoYo didn't do it because they didn't want to "pressure" players into getting into harder modes for the rewards. So now that they've actually gone and done it, and removed primo rewards to boot, we still have people complaining. So where's the space for people who truly want difficult content then?
m0bw0w2026-01-30 10:15
I really don't understand why simply explaining my experience became so upsetting to you.
fallenmamba2026-01-30 10:19
Not upset, it's a public forum, so I was making a general statement.
BlazikenFury2026-01-30 09:36
And??? Your point being? The game is not balanced around 'meta players' it's balanced around spenders. And It's called endgame not fungame, It's supposed to be a challenge, so either achieve that by the way hoyo wants, which is spending or optimize your gameplay.
You can do 99% of the content in the game where you can play however you want and use whatever you want, I myself roam around with Mizuki in the overworld with Fischl+Furina and have fun that way. Why do you think the endgame needs to be the place where you can play whatever you like?
No_Compote_2242026-01-30 09:50
Ever heard of the term "toxic casual" ? Genshin is full of them.
There's also the sentiment some ppl have of correctly playing the game, ie :
"Everyone more casual than me doesn't know anything and shouldn't talk about the game" and "Everyone trying harder than me need to touch grass, this game isn't supposed to be for them."
OmniOnly2026-01-30 15:11
Yes, from day one when you couldn't talk about new characters because they were strong, all the way to every event when they Hate META for just existing.
Cormacolinde2026-01-30 18:39
You got it exactly. This kind of sentiment (everyone below me is a filthy casual/everyone above is a no-lifer) is not new, I experienced it playing WoW 20+ years ago (OMFG I just realized how old I am), the forums and community was full of this stuff.
With Gacha games, this gets mixed in with the amount of money people invest in the game. People will attack you for not spending enough, spending too much (aka spending more than they do), your time spent on the game (goes both ways with people attacking people who don’t do artifact routes and attacking people for getting 100% too fast), not being good at dodging/rotations, being too “tryhard”.
qri_pretty2026-01-30 10:15
Call of Duty is much different. People in competitive modes tend to use the same guns, perks and equipment so the only thing that really matters is player's personal skill and map knowledge.
Adventurous-Day-67382026-01-30 08:25
Yeah I'm not sure why some people are discouraging others from trying to clear the higher difficulties, just because they're not worth primos. Players have been asking for harder endgame content for *years*, they even made a compromise and said we don't need the harder stuff to be worth primos. Hoyoverse finally did it and its worth going over strategies even if stygian is quite shill-intensive. Tho if you play only hard mode and just want primos, I respect and support it(better for your mental health tbh)
Pristine-Pop19672026-01-30 09:18
Context. People are discouraging CRYBABIES from trying to clear the higher difficulties.
It's perfectly fine to try them but if you keep losing, don't be a sore loser and cry here on reddit
Relevant_Milk62752026-01-30 09:53
Exactly. People are just whining about it being too hard and all, then how about you just... dont play it?
Demacian_Justice2026-01-30 14:49
Most of the whining recently is because this specific stygian is significantly harder than everything that came before it. The fireblade guy was one of the hardest stygian bosses to date like 2 patches ago, and now he's the easiest by far in the current lineup.
People are mad because hoyo is very rapidly increasing the difficulty of fearless+, since what had been an actually enjoyable (but doable) endgame challenge for skilled players is being reduced to purely a wallet check. That group of players looked forward to stygian before, since it was the only real challenging content in the game, but now the only real options are to stop at the primo tiers that they clear in 15 seconds blindfolded, or to reset for 12 hrs straight going for higher tiers.
Kiaraan2026-01-30 15:35
I still dont really understand the bitching, imo there could even be one difficulty above dire.
Even this (hardest ever) dire is clearable by recent metacomps with minimal vertical investment (1-2 cost extra over the premium teams value).
Yes, you cant clear dire with random shit. But the only limit it does is not wasting ur primos / resin, you dont have to whale / swipe at all to clear it.
Yet people bitch and moan, cuz instead of being resourceful they pull “for fun”, then get surprised pikachu-ed that a 2 year old character cant clear, which is like half the game’s whole lifespan.
Even then, neu is used on the crab, and alre was used on the previous dire..
Comp0022026-01-30 08:25
Bro why is the mc bob joke still running 😭
throwway852352026-01-30 08:25
I pull for waifus and they happen to be meta every single time. Why fight. I pull waifus before I do their test runs or read a single word of their kits.
Seraph1992026-01-30 08:41
Yeah I think that is definitely part of the complaints. If you don't mindlessly pull for every new waifu, and happen to invest in daddies because you like them more, you don't get to enjoy the meta as much
throwway852352026-01-30 08:52
I didn't complain when Alhaitham and Neuvillette were kings of the meta, and I expect the same from people who prefer men.
Just think about it like in O Fortuna. "I will rule, I rule, I have ruled, I am without dominion." When the wheel of fortune rolls all the way around, you'll get to gloat and I'll sulk. We good?
Also, you have Flins and Durin and Varka. Get back in the queue.
SecyaDenali2026-01-30 09:04
Im still building DPS Kaveh mans has a 41 CV feather and its green
He gon be drippy
SecyaDenali2026-01-30 09:02
Bruhh I have Ineffa and pulled for Yelan instead Flins on banner. Why? Coz I was doing the chasm quest and she was there and dont know what team comps back then was
... and its mfn Yelan thats why.
UpperSupermarket59332026-01-30 08:26
Uh Oh, they're not going to like this.
Virtual-Top41622026-01-30 08:30
I just wanna buff my Hydro witch dud leave me alone! 😤
/j
Fit_Inside_65062026-01-30 08:33
Coaxed into endgame meta discussion
Soft-Psychology80182026-01-30 08:33
Seen a similar discussion under someone asking for help to get all 9 stars for deadly assault(zzz) 😭
Beautiful-Reserve-812026-01-30 08:41
It's both. People are dumb on both sides
Kpoofies2026-01-30 09:06
Whats so dumb about enjoying difficult content and trying to beat it?
Beautiful-Reserve-812026-01-30 09:09
Nothing? I'm referring to the people the other post depicts
Icy-Childhood-45872026-01-30 09:24
Nothing dumb about trying to beat it. What's dumb is complaining for not being able to beat it and what's even more dumb is B-itching on others who have invested characters.
Kpoofies2026-01-30 09:30
Well yeah, that's why I'm asking the other guy what they mean when they say "dumb on both sides".
strawwwwwwwwberry2026-01-30 10:18
Said other guy replied to you before you made this comment with an explanation, my guy
pc_player_yt2026-01-30 09:38
the meta folks just love shitting on old characters unprompted. I’ll open a post where someone is glad they cleared SO with an old character with invested sig, cons and/or new supports, and the comments will immediately be about how “X the new DPS character can do it cheaper” or “your team has Y and Z so it’s a wheelchair”. OP was just happy to share them being able clear endgame with their favorite character but the meta folks can’t stand the old character being able to do endgame for some reason.
Ifalna_Shayoko2026-01-30 10:02
Dunno, it feels pretty dumb to me, considering your friendly neighborhood whale just cruises through it on auto pilot.
Beating a "challenge" in a Gacha game feels akin to "lets run this dungeon naked" in an MMO. Yeah you can do it but there really is no point and it basically feels like you deliberately tie your own hands to make things harder just for the sake of it.
If everyone is on equal footing: by all means, that is what games are about. But if every player can tune the challenge to their liking by spending various amounts of money, the challenge loses it's meaning.
At least that's how my brain perceives it. YMMV.
Kpoofies2026-01-30 10:15
Well, my friendly neighborhood whale also makes GIGA factories in Factorio, and they have more achievements than I do in Half-Life 2. Who the fuck cares about what people do in a single player game?
It's honestly a really wild take to compare this literal single-player story game to an MMO. The only sensible thing here you said is "YMMV" because that's literally all there is to it. It's like complaining about people being very very good at guitar hero while you're struggling to beat easy.. Like, okay, so?
If people want to spend money to do dire then they can do that. The challenge is not Dire, the challenge is Fearless, for f2p. People discussing on team comps and artifact sets, for f2p, to beat fearless, that's where the game is at. Yeah of course whales can beat dire, grass is green, that's why that's not the discussion
AnonUSA3822026-01-30 08:41
And now every other post is celebrating dire clears whenever it resets
Even my f2p friends were able to clear last dire and they originally complained and raved against it. People will always find a reason to hate something they perceive as being locked out of (until they manage to clear it themselves)
Pristine-Pop19672026-01-30 09:24
Yes. People cry a lot here until they crit fished themselves into winning. It's okay to get angry for losing but bringing all that bad behavior into reddit because they lost is deplorable. No good discussion can arise while angry and such people are just using the space for catharsis.
Ifalna_Shayoko2026-01-30 10:05
>until they crit fished themselves into winning.
I'd say if content clears are depending on RNG, that's poorly designed & balanced content.
It should be the player's skill that decides, not RNG, not money or time spent.
Pristine-Pop19672026-01-30 10:15
Well crit is RNG so you're saying it's an element of bad design?
Gacha games are about RNG, money and time spent. What are you doing here? Go play triple A titles
Inevitable_Ad_79442026-01-30 08:42
Hey guys, I want to play Flins premium team but I'm missing some components. I don't have Ineffa, Columbina, Sucrose, Nodkrai map, and the Genshin Impact game. Can you suggest some replacements?
tri1703912026-01-30 08:49
Some grass touching is the replacement you need.
thisbigdiamond2026-01-30 10:11
but that's an aggravate team
gryphon_duke2026-01-30 10:31
dude this is like a fever dream, when sumeru came out i deadass saw some wildflowers walking my dog one day and went "hey i think i've seen those in genshin" AND THEN IT HIT ME. "I THINK I'VE SEEN FLOWERS IN GENSHIN." COOKED TO THE POINT OF RADIOACTIVITY
According-Look-5762026-01-30 10:28
Whaling on C6R5 Flins is the only solution
Reasonable-Banana8002026-01-30 12:17
Kidnap the Flins va of your choice
Few-Indication63192026-01-30 15:31
Not the EN VA, that man is a serial rage baiter 🤣🤣
JunkKnight2026-01-30 19:08
Nic Olson returned by kidnappers after ragebaiting them for 3 hours straight.
kaitsukama2026-01-30 12:25
Watching Flins premium gameplay on YouTube is the best. You don't even have to invest into that Flins much. You just need wifi. No primos, nothing!
WorstSkilledPlayer2026-01-30 13:09
You mean I have to visit an external media platform to watch gameplay footage of a team I don't have for a game I don't play? Oof, I don't know how to feel about that 😆
kaitsukama2026-01-30 16:06
That's the most f2p option sadly
SenSnowy2026-01-30 08:45
Did you mean to have it the other way around ? That the meta player is being made fun of?
Educational-Run52352026-01-30 08:45
[deleted]
fallenmamba2026-01-30 08:47
Me when I don't read the post
DeadLight31412026-01-30 08:47
Bro really pulled a post from r/coaxedintoasnafu and thought we wouldn't notice
BakuGO20062026-01-30 08:50
Both are true, there’s people forcing meta discussions more than they need to and those forcing anti meta sentiments more than necessary
asilvertintedrose2026-01-30 08:52
I'm a simple man. I clear up to stygian menacing, then call it quits.
Pi-Alamode2026-01-30 08:53
fun is what matters 🤷♂️ if minmaxxing is fun to you, then good, if your f2p bob team that gets you all your primos is fun to you, then good 🤷♂️
fallenmamba2026-01-30 08:56
The issue is when meta players insert themselves into casual discussions and put down less-than-perfect characters, and when non-meta players insert themselves into meta discussions and argue that a character is top 5 DPS just because they can barely clear. Same goes for lore discussions too.
pc_player_yt2026-01-30 09:33
same. Can’t even go anywhere on a post with an Electro DPS that won’t get the comments call them a “Flins downgrade”, or any team that has any support released after your DPS came out a “wheelchair”. I just want to play the characters I like in peace goddamnit.
Ok_Can_64242026-01-30 09:45
Crazy how we went from worse than Varesa to better than any electro DPSes. People really flip flopping about that guy
Ronanesque2026-01-30 10:14
I wonder why? Maybe because theres a certain new hydro character just released literally right now
Ok_Can_64242026-01-30 10:42
and then, we have people like Xlice saying that Flins is replaceable lol. I've been there from the start of his beta, from doomposting to glazing. And honestly, it's so funny how the meta community denied Columbina potential on his team or any lunar teams. I've been saying that, his team is already busted without Columbina. And now, we have powercreep problem....
The_4th_Wonderland2026-01-30 11:07
Flins being "replaceable" is a somewhat popular opinion among meta players but honestly I think it's super cope (is this a hot take?)
Their reasoning is that Bina + Ineffa opens you up to a bunch of comps that they can wheelchair, but no one ever talks about the reverse; if you have Flins + Bina then you won't need to play wheelchair in the first place. The thing is it doesn't matter if Bina + Ineffa or Bina + Flins is better, because either of those can't clear Dire C0 anyway, you would need all 3.
Ok_Can_64242026-01-30 14:21
one side of meta theorist seems to be more interested in agenda posting than being more informative. Wheelchair is such a stupid term ngl. We've using supports impact before, why can't we just use that term. I really like that term better...
I know you can play however you like but playing wheelchair feels like hyperbloom. It doesn't feel as satisfying as I hope it be. It's like Raiden hyperbloom comp being her best team haha..
The_4th_Wonderland2026-01-30 14:38
OMG you are so right about the agenda posting part of meta and I hate it too. So many players will say "oh <insert 5-star unit> is bad because they do 5-10k worst than Razor/Gaming" but no one actually plays Razor/Gaming. Also really found it funny that people are parading Durin as the 2nd best on-field Pyro carry but on release no one actually played that either.
Im with when you say these wheelchair comps dont feel satisfying to play. I never played Hyperbloom without a dedicated on-fielder (Alhaitham) and I dont really vibe with playing Bina + Ineffa + Sucrose with a Fischl or something either.
strawwwwwwwwberry2026-01-30 10:16
There’s this one fucker in the Neuvilette sub that keeps veresaposting his 170K dps C6R5 Veresa to prove that he’s worse than her. Like can you not find anything better to do on a Friday evening??? 😭
Demon-Cat2026-01-30 10:29
C6R5 and only 170k DPS? How bad is this guy lmao
RicktamRoy2026-01-30 15:20
My C0R1 reaches 145k on the dummy😭😭
How can someone be this bad while doomposting
skeetyeeturlifedelet2026-01-30 10:50
How bad is he at the video game, my c1r1 gets 165k and my artifacts are buns
OneHitSkill2026-01-30 11:08
As a Varesa main I now feel shame... why does he do it, the Varesa mains already have a bad reputation and he just makes it worse :(
I cant stop that guys but, uhm... sorry about that
Kiaraan2026-01-30 15:24
Bro was literally stalking me for days and following all my comments to comment on anything i did cuz he got mad about me saying Varesa is the 6th dps rn.
strawwwwwwwwberry2026-01-30 17:32
Imagine living on reddit like that oh my lord
ShiroKuroIro2026-01-30 16:47
My full flin c0r1 premium team got 200k dps over 2 minutes rotation though… what is the person even doing with a c6r5 varessa doing less than that??
Iokua_CDN2026-01-30 19:40
The "Wheelchair" being used as a negative word annoys me.
Like genshin has always been this.
Either you Hyper Carry a main DPS
Or you add a good group of Sub Dps Characters to supplement the onfield Characters damage
Or you run a Driver who drives all the offield DPS Characters
2 if those playstyles could be called "Wheelchair" now. But they have always been an option have always been used
jinxedandcursed2026-01-30 12:13
The amount of times I've seen "the dog isn't that bad" and "I can clear it on hard mode" in the same comment has been concerning lately when a discussion is very obviously about fearless.
AmberAglia2026-01-30 16:25
I saw a tweet that said that, sighed, rolled my eyes and blocked them 😭 “idk why people are complaining about the current OS, its easy. I only played through hard mode”
… like obviously we arent talking about hard mode…
ejsks2026-01-30 13:29
Lore discussions is actually so real because istg so many people here complaining about lore/story 9/10 are just illiterate
smolpeter2026-01-30 15:17
Not quite. It’s when casual players insert themselves into meta discussions like they try doing Menacing or even Fearless Stygian with the most random teams and ask for help. The meta players then explain who they need and what they need. Then the casual players take offense to that because they don’t like the gameplay/playstyle/character/etc of the characters the meta players recommend. And it’s like why are you attempting the most strict content if you don’t want the suggestions to help you clear the content.
With Abyss, you can technically clear with random teams. Might not be 36 star, but still a clear. With Stygian, there is either kill the boss or fail. Granted, there are old characters that can clear, but requires heavy vertical investments. Good on them. But I’m talking about certain casual players that has C0R0 characters who were never even meta to begin with and they ask for advice but doesn’t listen anyway just because “I find him/her ugly” or “They’re too complicated to play”
Jaffrry2026-01-30 09:30
This is moreso an answer to those posts that downplay "meta play" as something not fun. Really I've seen a lot of people occasionally "X is a good character META wise just look at my damage" then when confronted with actual calcs or actual team comps proceed to backpedal and claim they don't play for META, which of course leads to the usual "I play for fun, not META" statements. There is a time to say that, but there are also times when it becomes something that is intended to downplay META gameplay cause it is not their definition of "fun".
Hojuma2026-01-30 11:00
Just recently, I've seen a post that's titled, "For those who only pull for meta, you have to skip like lots of your favs so how do you enjoy the game still?". There's also the opposite where they basically asks, "Those who pull for favorites, how do you enjoy not clearing endgame modes?". I see those kinds of posts pop up occassionally and I really don't know if it's ragebait or the poster is just that smug.
OmniOnly2026-01-30 15:19
Even people who play Meta, pull for Fun. The Meta gameplay is always investment not grabbing every new character.
Helgen_2026-01-30 08:55
Well this is mainly because Genshin players don't care about clearing end game content anymore, there are only 2 things that matters nowadays.
1. Being top 1% on Akasha.
2. Showcasing the best dmg possible vs a dummie in Miliastra. Flexing the results online so you can impress people who don't give a sh\*t about you anyways.
This is no longer about clearing battles and getting rewards, this is a competition about whose d\*\*k is larger. It doesn't matter if you can clear Stygian level 5 with Flins in an Ineffaless team, because they deal more dmg to the dummie with Ineffa, so that's all that matters.
If a character is bad for online showcasing it doesn't matter if they're strong enough to clear and have fun, they insta hate it and make everyone who likes them feel bad and weak if they pull for them. This is no longer a single player videogame to enjoy and have fun with, is just a social media competition about dmg screenshots.
Kpoofies2026-01-30 09:07
I think you’re spending too much time on Reddit, honestly, no offense. Genshin is a single player game and clearing high levels is for personal fun. The things you’re referencing is 1000% made by chronically online people
Helgen_2026-01-30 09:10
Well that's exactly my point and I enjoy the game without caring about meta or showcases, but just spend some time or reddit, youtube, hoyolab or any other social media, you will find people ONLY talking about their dps vs a dummie or their 1% builds on Akasha.
pc_player_yt2026-01-30 09:40
the entire post is about discourse stemmed from these chronically online folks, it’s fair that the comment is about it
pc_player_yt2026-01-30 09:40
the Ineffa line is so fucking true lol, everything is a “wheelchair” to them now. Might as well play solo C6R1 Wriothesley like the game intended, no teammate helps allowed in my team building game amirite.
SecyaDenali2026-01-30 08:58
Yeah well my Barbara has been apart of my last 3 and only abyss clears coz everyone knows shes the GOAT as well her big sis
StyJean Onslaught they the real end game bosses.
tudeckslore2026-01-30 08:58
I hate min-maxing/optimizing my teams.
BUT, i fucking love seeing min-maxer posts that spend so much time optimizing their teams so that they can kill God 2 seconds faster.
qazqazpc2026-01-30 08:59
Funniest to me is that people sees dhcwsp clears Abyss with 4 stars and said, "You can clears abyss with 4 stars! You don't need xxx DPS to do so!"
Sivrumii2026-01-30 09:44
I hate this sm. Those clears are impressive ofc, but people are annoying and think it's relatable to everyone. It's not even about gameplay but almost 50cv artifacts on every character, r5 favoniuses which IS very noticable in stygian. Heck I don't even have 2 r5 favonius bows, but thank god I have so many eyes of perception, they're sooo "useful"
TheChosenerPoke2026-01-30 11:29
Yeah but when people are sharing those runs, the point isn’t “This guy did it so you can do it too!”, the point is that if you can clear by limiting yourself so much, you should be able to clear on an account that pulls too.
Just for example, I have a fairly casual friend. Pulls for who they like, don’t have sigs for most chars, pulls for crappy cons on characters they like, doesn’t farm artifacts often. They complained that they don’t have the characters to clear, complaints such as no nod krai carry, lacking premium supports, lacking an electro-charged team, etc., and I pointed out they have some pretty good characters, even if they don’t have many options for those characters, they can absolutely clear, and they said they’d been trying for hours and dared me to do it, since they know that my personal experience is much easier since I have highly invested, and many characters.
So I logged onto their account swapped around some weapons and artis (mostly hitting er reqs), and did it easily. Their roster is significantly weaker than mine, but of course it’s still possible, I don’t see why a guy with (albeit insane) 4*s would be able to clear and someone with access to 5*s wouldn’t be able to.
Sivrumii2026-01-30 12:07
I have a friend like that too, except she pulls for meta characters and has good cons, on arle, furina, neuvilette. But the problem is she doesn't know what she's doing. When I suggested her to put mona on instructor for her mualani (it was long before hexerei buffs, and she didn't have xilonen), she said something like "I won't be using a four star set", she just doesn't understand its value. She also doesn't understand value of ER on supports. And with so many other things. She stops at floor 11, and takes primos from stygian. Nothing wrong with that or playing casually, but the thing is she complains that she wants ro, but can't clear stuff.
What I said wasn't that I struggle to clear with limited characters, but that having useful constellations on 4 stars or refinements on useful weapons isn't always relatable, because it's gacha and rng. I have varesa with c0 iansan and c3 chevreuse. I can clear abyss with her, but I'm not clearing SO d5 with this. I love her, but I'm aftaid by the time I get her supports to c6, she will be bad, considering with how the powercreep jumped. It won't happen soon, but lets say in a year from now on. And chances of me getting either of 4* to c6 are small, and will also depend on what 5* character banners they will be. Same happened with another character.
Kimy_Miya2026-01-30 09:57
He's been playing for long and has pretty good artifacts, good weapons that people gotta understand are maxed both level and refinements!
Also, there are various factors affecting playing including: Device, Ping, comfortability, comfort with using team, rotation time, FPS, etc.
And we know that dhcwsp (only using him as an example) works with good quality stuff. Taking myself as an example too ig, I have Skirk and Mavuika's premium team + nicely built account, and still can't clear Fearless sometimes once or twice, not only because of "skill issue" but ping and device issue as well. The more I look at clears, I understand that skills aren't THAT big factor if your device, ping, fps are all against you
Varglord2026-01-30 10:17
Funniest to me is that people only see dhcwsp clear Abyss with 4 stars and say "You can't do it unless you're a whale!"
Like other people aren't also doing it...
myslipperbroke2026-01-30 10:35
eh, while he probably has extremely cracked artifacts and weapon options, clearing endgame with a non full team of 4 stars is still really impressive, and i think way too many people like to discredit actual skill in light of their own insecurity.
you can see the same in hsr where every low cost clear there's always SOMEONE talking about relics LCs; anything to discredit the player's skill. they fail to understand that you don't have to use a team of 4 stars. just understand and appreciate how they utilise different game mechanics, add in a few of your limited units and it should be possible without drowning in your own sweat
obviously it doesn't justify forcing your opinions on and being a dickhead to other people, but every basket's always going to have a few bad apples
htp-di-nsw2026-01-30 09:00
I don't want to tell anyone how to play. Everyone can play how they want. But I really wish I understood why people enjoyed hard content in Genshin. I can understand suffering through unfun content for rewards, kind of, but when there are no worthwhile rewards, either, I just don't get it.
Just to be clear where I am coming from, I love Genshin overall and have literally never missed a day since I started about a week after launch. I *can* clear all the endgame content up to Dire. But, I don't enjoy *any* of the three endgame modes we have. They are chores I complete once a month before I get back to the actually fun stuff (that most other players seem to find to be chores!).
fallenmamba2026-01-30 09:06
Because it's fun. There's streamers who spend 5-6+ hours on a single account clearing Fearless for a viewer (for free) because they enjoy the challenge. There's Zajef who spends 18 hours attempting Fearless just because he enjoys it. Same reason people play Elden Ring. People can enjoy games how they like (especially single player games) without affecting others and that's how it should be.
htp-di-nsw2026-01-30 09:42
I understand *that* people enjoy it, and again let me stress that it's fine and I don't want to tell them to stop or that they're wrong to do so. I just don't understand why they would find the hard content in Genshin to be fun.
It's funny that you mention Elden Ring because I absolutely love that game. I played it after Genshin earlier tonight, and I think I have put close to 300 hours into it. I would consider it among my top 3 favorite games of all time, alongside, in no particular order, The Monster Hunter Series and Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom.
Though Elden Ring is difficult (I think, perhaps, that gets overstated sometimes), it's not just simply the fact that it is hard that makes it fun. It's *how* they make it hard. It's the intermingling of complex pieces and the specific way combat works (looking for/forcing openings to use a limited moveset against aggressive enemies that are legitimately dangerous) that make it fun.
Genshin's combat isn't like that. There's very little, if any, interplay between the player and the enemy. You're just doing your own thing and what the enemy is doing is mostly irrelevant unless it's entering a super telegraphed phase. That's fine when you're spanking a weekly boss or domain, but when you're just chipping down a multi million point HP bar? Meh. So I guess I just wish I understand what aspect of the combat could be fun enough to do for 6 hours or whatever these people do.
And again, there's nothing wrong with people enjoying this. I am not shitting on it, I am explaining why I don't understand it already and how I would like to.
fallenmamba2026-01-30 09:47
That's totally fair, and yeah, I mostly agree with you. Genshin's combat system is really simple, and there isn't that much optimization you can do in terms of the actual fighting the enemy part. But, atleast in recent times, there is more skill expression in Mavuika combos, Skirk combos, character positioning, grouping, stuff like that. Personally, I would never spend 5-6 hours trying to optimize that kind of stuff, but I do know players who do enjoy that and what this entire post is trying to say is more power to them lmao.
Varglord2026-01-30 10:24
You're not wrong that the challenge in genshin is different that a more typical style of challenge in something like Eldenring. However for me, I like a challenge in any game I play and I play a lot of genshin, so I want a challenge in genshin. Even if that challenge looks different because of the nature of genshin, I still enjoy the challenge.
Icy-Childhood-45872026-01-30 09:28
Almost everything is worthless if you don't enjoy it. Similarly almost everything is worthwhile if you enjoy it.
Just saying, I am considered weird for spending on games by the same person who spends more than me on watching the latest movies and buying expensive popcorn packs.
htp-di-nsw2026-01-30 09:44
Yeah, uh, so I am in my 40s. I have long since learned that everyone is different and likes different stuff and all that. It's perfectly fine to like a thing that's different than I do. I just want to understand it. I would love to see if anyone else has introspected to figure it out. I always want to know *why* I like or don't like something, but so few other people bother.
BlazikenFury2026-01-30 09:51
It depends on the person's mentality a lot. Different People feel satisfaction differently. I feel good when I clear stygian with 5-10 seconds left on the clock after resetting a bunch because I enjoy Genshin combat, however I absolute hate games like Dark souls where you also have to reset a lot. It's a matter of personality and way of thinking nothing to worry about.
Ifalna_Shayoko2026-01-30 10:12
Some people have fun beating their heads against a challenge.
Human brains are simply wired differently. What turns on one person may be a complete "bleargh" to the next. No need to try to explain it.
I don't find the endgames in Genshin fun either but that is due to 2 things:
* I hate timer based challenges in any game. It just stresses me out too much. Enrage timers like in MMO raids are okay and necessary but deriving challenge from everything being JUST a DPS check is ... ugh. Especially if the enemies are boring to fight, on a mechanical level and just have a truckload of HP.
* I do not perceive them as challenges in the first place because to me, the design intent intent screams "can't clear it? Pull/Spend moar!!1". Far too much player power is tied to money spent to take any "challenge" in Gacha games seriously.
**I'm saying this as someone that did endgame level organized raiding in MMOs or well over a decade, so it's not as if I am a stranger to meta, optimizations and slowly progressing hard content.**
Draw-Two-Cards2026-01-30 12:30
On the opposite end I don't know why people who don't care about endgame put themselves in discussions about it or pulling advice. Like play the game as you like but don't chime in when people are asking for help just to say nothing of value.
IRLMerlin2026-01-30 12:39
during the late 1800s a bunch of gentlemen from victorian england started giving up their lives there and starting anew living alone in the swiss mountains. nietzsche for example was one of them even if he wasnt english. they all had all the comforts of the world back home, quite a lot of them were rich even but nevertheless the swiss mountains called to them. living in a wooden cabin at the highest peak was seen as more fulfilling
for another example there is a famous thought experiment. imagine a machine capable of producing the sensation of every single experience. you plug yourself in and you can try the best sx, the feeling of seeing a lost loved one, the feeling of the best party etc etc. you can choose what to feel and it will also feel 100%. not even a single difference from reality, a perfect simulation. if you say no thats ridiculous then 80% of people asked this question agree with you
what im trying to get at is part of marxist psychoanalysis, that human beings dont seek hapiness as much as they seek friction. we dont want to win. we want to be challenged and win nevertheless. we want to create with our own two hands, we want to experience with our own two hands
for a gaming example i would point towards elden ring. elden ring is pretty hard especially if you are new. it will punish you severely multiple times for the tiniest of mistakes. im a souls veteran and if i do a 100% elden ring i will die like 300 times definitely. but its one of the most famous games of all time. it got game of the year on release and when the dlc dropped its dlc would have won again if they let ot compete.
jinxedandcursed2026-01-30 12:41
For me, and keep in mind I've never done dire mode and I don't consider my fearless clear this time "legitimate" but I've gotten pretty much every star/stella/reward in endgame ever since like 3.7, it's a puzzle for me to figure out and something to practice, plan, and execute. I like seeing what I can do, especially with the elemental system and even more so when the odds are stacked against me or certain characters I have. I kept Mavuika's burst at level 6 for awhile just to keep the challenge. When we had the cryo automaton in the abyss and I wanted to use Alhaitham, I used Escoffier and deepwood Lynette with Alhaitham and Kuki and won. It was a ridiculous clear.
Most of the time, the boss mechanics play into it as well. I like messing with their RNG and trying to provoke certain states on them in my favor. Even with certain, really awful design, I like seeing it through to the end.
The only reason I don't ever touch dire is because I know that it's mathematically impossible for me. Otherwise, I would be beating my head against that too.
Kpoofies2026-01-30 09:05
This is literally “STOP HAVING FUN!!” Meme
nuts_extraction2026-01-30 09:05
The non-meta circle-jerking is crazy, I tell ya
Like, one guy would go "durr hurr i USe jaHodA insTEad of SUcroSe in My FliN teAm"
And the replies would be "baSEd" "gigAchAd" "this is the CORRECT WAY (aka my way) to play genshin"
Ifalna_Shayoko2026-01-30 10:18
Which is kinda hilarious, given that the main function of the Anemo is the Res shred from VV.
Yah sure, Sugar's EM share is nice and all but's it's not as if using any other anemo char is "way out of the box". It's still following the basic meta. :'D
KPmine12026-01-30 09:08
I do love seeing people complain about endgame content (me included) but I think it’s a bit more nuanced than a strict divide between endgame complainers and minimaxers :/
I’d love to minmax but my luck with artifacts are so bad that I don’t want to waste time that I could be using on other stuff (like doomscrolling :/) than grinding but than there are people that love the grind it’s all up to how YOU like to play the game after all
masterdiwa2026-01-30 09:31
IF the game allows a feature, and the devs don't patch it out. It is a legit playstyle.
Endgame min maxing? Allowed. Casual F2P primos only? Allowed. Solo character challenge clears? Allowed.
Let others play their preferred playstyle and play yours. Live and let live.
Low_Artist_76632026-01-30 10:42
Skipping dialogs isn't
masterdiwa2026-01-30 11:22
It IS allowed.
In hangouts.
Sutorerichia_XX2026-01-30 11:48
Skipping dialogues in lore-relevant quests may only become a thing once we are allowed to fully replay these quests whenever we want. Until then, may the lore skippers continue their suffering. /jknotjk
Supreme-Machine-V22026-01-30 16:48
Dialogue skip still should be a thing in aq and every quest not everyone is interested in the quests some just want the primos and rewards
Real-Contest49142026-01-30 13:05
Issue isn't that.
The issue is when the min maxer wants too doompost all the character who don't make the cut. It gets annoying hearing everyone say the character is trash because they don't good endgame mode and ends up making some people think the character is far worse than they are.
Foolspeare2026-01-30 17:35
"Doompost" conversations are literally always about meta. If you don't care about meta, ignore those conversations. It shouldn't be expected for meta players to not have discussions about the meta because they might make people who explicitly don't care about the meta feel one way or the other about a character.
Real-Contest49142026-01-30 17:49
Yeah but when they start to fill up both character subs and other subs, its annoying. Like many things its fine in moderation when it just ends up everywhere, then people get annoyed and starting.
KaiFireborn212026-01-30 17:50
Why would a player who's not a min maxer care if the character is strong or not?
...Or at least I'd like to say that but I have multiple friends who don't even know what artifacts are exactly but still pull for Mavuika and Skirk purely because they heard they were strong, and some who say Nod-Krai story was awful despite quitting after Fontaine because they've heard Columbina didn't turn out to be the creepy biblically accurate seraph.
So yeah. My argument is perfectly logical and that's precisely why it's null and void
Real-Contest49142026-01-30 17:56
Let me put it this way.
Some people like certain characters a lot.
And whether they play meta or not, it's frustrating to see constant slander of those characters. Like its psychology thing.
People don't like when thing they like are insulted or looked down upon, much less for when it happens frequently as is the case with varka who isn't even released yet.
The character being strong, mid or bad is irrelevant cause the issue is not that it's more to do with the treatment by community
You can know they are bad, and accept they are bad, that doesn't mean you're gonna be happy when people constantly remind you or constantly bring up that they are bad.
Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo2026-01-30 18:42
That's a good example of innate social behavior, but you also have to accept that people are talking about two different things when they say that a character is "bad."
No one can police opinions and conversations on the internet. If someone gets frustrated or upset that the hardcore community regards their blorbo as low-tier or whatever, it's up to that person to understand *why* and realize that those opinions aren't applicable in the same way; it's a different language not for them. It kinda sounds like I'm just saying "they need to cope," but they kind of will need to.
It will be easier in the long run for people to learn out to differentiate between criticism of gameplay and meta and criticism of their own likes and choices.
It doesn't bother me that Cyno and Clorinde aren't competitively meta as they used to be and need to be carried by supports, I'm still gonna use them regardless of community conversation.
Real-Contest49142026-01-30 19:12
Yeah but just because people need to learn to cope doesn't mean that the continuous meme and slander isn't bad.
It still creates an unfun environment for people.
Real-Contest49142026-01-30 19:17
Yeah but just because people need to learn to cope doesn't mean that the continuous meme and slander isn't bad.
It still creates an unfun environment for people.
PantheraAuroris2026-01-30 19:47
Vibes are a pain in the ass to fight and really make or break game communities.
Remember last year, when like 10% of posts in various Genshin subs were shitting on Natlan for whatever reason? Not enough men, too much power of friendship, weird costume design, too white, whatever? It weighs on you if you like the thing people are hating on. Like it or not, we are social creatures, and we soak up the atmosphere of our social environment. If everyone hates something you like, a very real part of your brain starts asking what's wrong with you, if you have bad taste, if you need to change, because we are literally programmed by evolution to think that people at large know more than individual persons, and to make others happy.
People get on their high horses and tell everyone not to care what others think, but that advice has been given since ancient times, and we have never been good at it as a species, because in the end it does serve us well to conform to an extent.
So really, we just want to be around people who like the things we like, and we feel bad when that doesn't happen. All the prefrontal cortex in the world won't out-logic the need to vibe with your community.
hyschara3042026-01-30 09:36
All y'all pulling on the meta agenda is what's feeding into this ridiculous powercreep to begin with
fallenmamba2026-01-30 09:40
"We don't like endgame shilling and powercreep, but it's the hand we've been dealt, so let's inform newer players about powercreep and help them make educated decisions on how to pull if they want to clear endgame"
"POWERCREEP IS YOUR FAULT DON'T YA KNOW"
Ifalna_Shayoko2026-01-30 09:39
I'd even go a step further:
Even A12 gives so little rewards, that it's -literally- not worth it to pull even one character just to be able co clear it.
So pull & play meta if it is FUN for you in itself, do not feel obligated to pull for meta just because there is a miniscule Gacha currency reward associated with it.
ElysiumReal2026-01-30 09:41
I would agree if only this completely isn't how it works. Floor 12 is still a meta asking floor and imaginarium theather is hell for f2p beyond hard. Locking primos behind a whale wall, considering you need multiple of the featured characters of that month to beat theather beyond hard.
Been playing since 1.0 and never been able to do it.
UnderstandingLow16192026-01-30 09:44
Sorry. But this is opposite to what's actually happening. People are having fun with the characters, and mostly it's those META slaves insulting the characters in the post they shouldn't be.
fallenmamba2026-01-30 09:48
This is a response post.
dnzgn2026-01-30 09:47
Meta discussions people have here are dumb when people have different artifacts, different constellations and different supports at different constellations. So, people going "character x isn't viable for fearless" isn't really a good meta discussion.
And the """"""ironic"""""" agenda posting made other people sour on meta players.
Luc1281282026-01-30 09:53
The problem you and that group keep complaining and yapping about how the enemies are unbalanced & harder, claiming Hoyo is being unfair, or claiming characters are not balanced based on modes that most people do not play. Everyone already knows particular characters or constellations are needed to complete it but still choose to complain. Just let people play however they want.
FatalWarrior2026-01-30 10:02
I never quite understood those who belittle anyone who actually wants to conquer the hard modes.
"You don't need to do the super hard modes to get the primos, so just stop". Well, you don't need new characters to enjoy the story, so stop doing anything but the quests. See how ridiculous that logic gets?
People enjoy different things.
issm2026-01-30 10:57
I don't care enough to go digging through peoples' comment history, but it is kind of funny that: "All the primos are available at low difficulties" and "Anyone who cares too much about primos needs to get over their gambling addiction" are simultaneously popular upvoted sentiments in this subreddit.
qri_pretty2026-01-30 10:13
I might say the same.... If I haven't 50+ friends who have successfully cleared DIRE difficulty....
PanRychu2026-01-30 10:18
The only time I take issue with someone who doesn't like playing meta is if they spew nonsense
An example I remember is someone saying mono-dendro teams were good...
Pan1512026-01-30 10:19
If you're full clearing endgame modes just for the primogems you're doing it backwards. Pulling strong characters uses more primogems than endgame modes award. Endgame modes are there for people who want a challenge.
gryphon_duke2026-01-30 10:26
incredible. i'm witnessing history be written before my very eyes. it's like helldivers but the devs aren't thundercunting their brains at the insects in the breakroom instead of making good warbonds
Independent_Peace1442026-01-30 10:27
Seems a lot of people somehow think you must have the best of the best to clear. I myself am a newer player so I lack the team compositions but my friend who has been playing since 1.0 still regularly uses his 2.x and 3.x teams to clear fearless and dire. He does use newer characters too though.
His main complaint is like people said, the end game was too easy. He has no cons, and very few sigs. I'm not sure how much he says is truth but I do know some things about him. His builds are top tier and he actually invests very well into his team, and he also has impeccable team building, able to recognize how to optimize and maximize his damage.
I might be wrong but because of how he clears, hes basically drilled it into me that meta characters isnt as important as it seems as long as you know what youre doing. For example, his clear for the first boss in fearless this time is sucrose, columbina, ineffa, aino. He has no flins nor nefer (afaik he has no plans to use them, he onlypulled bina ineffa for varesa wheelchair), but I also know ppl whohave nefer and flins premium struggling.
beautheschmo2026-01-30 13:08
I don't know how to tell you this, but bineffa + aino is not a 2.x/3.x team
1ll1der2026-01-30 14:30
He says his friend still use regularly 2.0 and 3.0 teams. Not that he always uses those teams.
Instead of treating him like he's an idiot, maybe just ask what are the 2.0 or 3.0 team his friend uses. Then you can clown on him if says team that aren’t from those version. If you gonna be a prick at least be a reasonable prick.
BluHor1zon2026-01-30 10:31
The community has become too large and echo chambers are becoming an issue. Choose your side and just enjoy what you want to play without going online and judging others for it.
Meta gaming communities have optimized the fun out of the game, and every time they clear things and call it too easy they want things harder, and it just starts to snowball.
Casuals on the other hand just want to have fun without engaging in the harder content, or have bare minimum to earn premium currency.
In the end no matter what the devs do it is a lose-lose to the at this point. The community will never be truly happy.
SleepySera2026-01-30 10:45
One aspect that I find gets often ignored and it's kinda frustrating that that's the case is... a lot of players who DON'T care about the extra difficulties still want to minmax to some degree, simply to have an easier time in the lower difficulties.
Also, a meta character with a good team and proper rotation can do a lot of the heavy lifting on accounts that aren't particularly well-built. So it's really annoying when someone asks questions about how to play a character better or which supports to get and then they get shut down because "it doesn't matter for a player like you". Like, if someone shows interest, let them learn??
kirmiter2026-01-30 10:58
Look I don't care about that, I'm just here for the Bobgamoth shipping
Gambit2752026-01-30 11:07
when you said endgame I thought you'd mean the story. Aether should be the king of Tevyat
TaiAnej2026-01-30 11:21
2 things can be true at the same time. Acting like fearless is the most important thing in the game is dumb af, you literally get nothing for clearing it. It's just for flexing and challenging yourself. 90% of players stop at hard for a reason. But if someone is hellbent on clearing it, let them play how they want.
parthmestry2026-01-30 12:11
I personally dislike artifact rng and my builds aren't even good to clear Fearless. I don't enjoy restarting abyss or Stygian again and again to get the perfect runs.
But whenever i see a clear on YouTube with a Ningguang, Sethos, Cyno, Tighnari, etc I always watch it, because it's actually really fun seeing people clear with their favs and do complicated rotations to really squeeze out every drop of damage.
Will i ever dedicate that much time into this game?? No. But there's something really endearing seeing people take the effort and really maximize their damage. Idk why it's a bad thing to....like the game. If someone enjoys a different aspect of the game than you then let them. It's literally meant to be that way.
cartercr2026-01-30 12:16
Idk man, I think it goes both ways.
If I post a clear using Keqing/Columbina/Sucrose/Ineffa, which is a team where Keqing has synergy with the supports, all I will get are comments of “holy fucking wheelchair” or “are you even playing Keqing at this point?” (Even on the KeqingMains sub that’s a thing.)
And this isn’t a new thing. For years people have shit on anyone who dares to enjoy Yoimiya. Moment someone says they play her 20 dudes jump down their throat to say how “Hu Tao is better” (remember this is pre-Mavuika/Arle.)
As it turns out… people are just assholes for no reason. It’s a PvE game, play how you want. But subsequently don’t tell others how they’re allowed to enjoy the game. If that means you enjoy doing crazy kick flip combos on Mavuika then by all means flex those skills! If that means you’re a machine-gun Fischl main then keep firing away!
Ravemst2026-01-30 12:48
People care too much about and acting like it’s the end of the world if they can’t clear it. It’s an optional game mode that you don’t have to do so there’s no point in stressing out over it. Losing is also a part of gaming but some of you just can’t take that L.
kevinsusilo072026-01-30 12:52
Eh. If you walk into a discussion about META, expect META bullshit to come your way. It's kinda on you for walking in and forcing your Primo-focused mindset on a group of people who already agreed on how they want to play the game.
Iamliterallyfood2026-01-30 13:11
Who is vargomoth?
RekoULt2026-01-30 13:29
And they hide the fact they tried 1000 times lmfao
ChaosKinZ2026-01-30 13:56
The others can too, but refuse to listen to team comp advice
Paiguy72026-01-30 15:27
This one is the realest
MacAttack2649842026-01-30 17:20
I can't clear shit past the second difficulty but that's my own fault lol
PantheraAuroris2026-01-30 19:43
As long as endgame minmax nerds don't disparage people who just want cool character designs, and vice versa, everyone can have fun.
Commentaires
Fav Rosaria, Fav Xiangling and yes i do have r5 Catch but fav be favving.
Worth it
They are perfectly fine weapons
It’s like a Beat up but old reliable car
Gets you to point a to point b
also yvonne pfp!!!
I had someone yell at and insult me once in a thread where some guy asked if his Hu Tao team was still meta, because I said the team was outdated but still a got comfort team.
Genshin is def a more casual game but you can’t be a casual if you lose your shit over people minmaxing
Like seriously give the advice people asked for instead of saying the same 50th thing
People are growing more disillusioned to their chances of a better life and forced to work undesirable jobs to meet ends meet.
This same issue is reflected in games like Genshin, where players are psychologically manipulated to do something undesirable (e.g spend or pull for strong characters they don’t like) even in their leisure.
You can do 99% of the content in the game where you can play however you want and use whatever you want, I myself roam around with Mizuki in the overworld with Fischl+Furina and have fun that way. Why do you think the endgame needs to be the place where you can play whatever you like?
There's also the sentiment some ppl have of correctly playing the game, ie :
"Everyone more casual than me doesn't know anything and shouldn't talk about the game" and "Everyone trying harder than me need to touch grass, this game isn't supposed to be for them."
With Gacha games, this gets mixed in with the amount of money people invest in the game. People will attack you for not spending enough, spending too much (aka spending more than they do), your time spent on the game (goes both ways with people attacking people who don’t do artifact routes and attacking people for getting 100% too fast), not being good at dodging/rotations, being too “tryhard”.
It's perfectly fine to try them but if you keep losing, don't be a sore loser and cry here on reddit
People are mad because hoyo is very rapidly increasing the difficulty of fearless+, since what had been an actually enjoyable (but doable) endgame challenge for skilled players is being reduced to purely a wallet check. That group of players looked forward to stygian before, since it was the only real challenging content in the game, but now the only real options are to stop at the primo tiers that they clear in 15 seconds blindfolded, or to reset for 12 hrs straight going for higher tiers.
Even this (hardest ever) dire is clearable by recent metacomps with minimal vertical investment (1-2 cost extra over the premium teams value).
Yes, you cant clear dire with random shit. But the only limit it does is not wasting ur primos / resin, you dont have to whale / swipe at all to clear it.
Yet people bitch and moan, cuz instead of being resourceful they pull “for fun”, then get surprised pikachu-ed that a 2 year old character cant clear, which is like half the game’s whole lifespan.
Even then, neu is used on the crab, and alre was used on the previous dire..
Just think about it like in O Fortuna. "I will rule, I rule, I have ruled, I am without dominion." When the wheel of fortune rolls all the way around, you'll get to gloat and I'll sulk. We good?
Also, you have Flins and Durin and Varka. Get back in the queue.
He gon be drippy
... and its mfn Yelan thats why.
/j
Beating a "challenge" in a Gacha game feels akin to "lets run this dungeon naked" in an MMO. Yeah you can do it but there really is no point and it basically feels like you deliberately tie your own hands to make things harder just for the sake of it.
If everyone is on equal footing: by all means, that is what games are about. But if every player can tune the challenge to their liking by spending various amounts of money, the challenge loses it's meaning.
At least that's how my brain perceives it. YMMV.
It's honestly a really wild take to compare this literal single-player story game to an MMO. The only sensible thing here you said is "YMMV" because that's literally all there is to it. It's like complaining about people being very very good at guitar hero while you're struggling to beat easy.. Like, okay, so?
If people want to spend money to do dire then they can do that. The challenge is not Dire, the challenge is Fearless, for f2p. People discussing on team comps and artifact sets, for f2p, to beat fearless, that's where the game is at. Yeah of course whales can beat dire, grass is green, that's why that's not the discussion
Even my f2p friends were able to clear last dire and they originally complained and raved against it. People will always find a reason to hate something they perceive as being locked out of (until they manage to clear it themselves)
I'd say if content clears are depending on RNG, that's poorly designed & balanced content.
It should be the player's skill that decides, not RNG, not money or time spent.
Gacha games are about RNG, money and time spent. What are you doing here? Go play triple A titles
Their reasoning is that Bina + Ineffa opens you up to a bunch of comps that they can wheelchair, but no one ever talks about the reverse; if you have Flins + Bina then you won't need to play wheelchair in the first place. The thing is it doesn't matter if Bina + Ineffa or Bina + Flins is better, because either of those can't clear Dire C0 anyway, you would need all 3.
I know you can play however you like but playing wheelchair feels like hyperbloom. It doesn't feel as satisfying as I hope it be. It's like Raiden hyperbloom comp being her best team haha..
Im with when you say these wheelchair comps dont feel satisfying to play. I never played Hyperbloom without a dedicated on-fielder (Alhaitham) and I dont really vibe with playing Bina + Ineffa + Sucrose with a Fischl or something either.
How can someone be this bad while doomposting
I cant stop that guys but, uhm... sorry about that
Like genshin has always been this.
Either you Hyper Carry a main DPS
Or you add a good group of Sub Dps Characters to supplement the onfield Characters damage
Or you run a Driver who drives all the offield DPS Characters
2 if those playstyles could be called "Wheelchair" now. But they have always been an option have always been used
… like obviously we arent talking about hard mode…
With Abyss, you can technically clear with random teams. Might not be 36 star, but still a clear. With Stygian, there is either kill the boss or fail. Granted, there are old characters that can clear, but requires heavy vertical investments. Good on them. But I’m talking about certain casual players that has C0R0 characters who were never even meta to begin with and they ask for advice but doesn’t listen anyway just because “I find him/her ugly” or “They’re too complicated to play”
1. Being top 1% on Akasha.
2. Showcasing the best dmg possible vs a dummie in Miliastra. Flexing the results online so you can impress people who don't give a sh\*t about you anyways.
This is no longer about clearing battles and getting rewards, this is a competition about whose d\*\*k is larger. It doesn't matter if you can clear Stygian level 5 with Flins in an Ineffaless team, because they deal more dmg to the dummie with Ineffa, so that's all that matters.
If a character is bad for online showcasing it doesn't matter if they're strong enough to clear and have fun, they insta hate it and make everyone who likes them feel bad and weak if they pull for them. This is no longer a single player videogame to enjoy and have fun with, is just a social media competition about dmg screenshots.
StyJean Onslaught they the real end game bosses.
BUT, i fucking love seeing min-maxer posts that spend so much time optimizing their teams so that they can kill God 2 seconds faster.
Just for example, I have a fairly casual friend. Pulls for who they like, don’t have sigs for most chars, pulls for crappy cons on characters they like, doesn’t farm artifacts often. They complained that they don’t have the characters to clear, complaints such as no nod krai carry, lacking premium supports, lacking an electro-charged team, etc., and I pointed out they have some pretty good characters, even if they don’t have many options for those characters, they can absolutely clear, and they said they’d been trying for hours and dared me to do it, since they know that my personal experience is much easier since I have highly invested, and many characters.
So I logged onto their account swapped around some weapons and artis (mostly hitting er reqs), and did it easily. Their roster is significantly weaker than mine, but of course it’s still possible, I don’t see why a guy with (albeit insane) 4*s would be able to clear and someone with access to 5*s wouldn’t be able to.
What I said wasn't that I struggle to clear with limited characters, but that having useful constellations on 4 stars or refinements on useful weapons isn't always relatable, because it's gacha and rng. I have varesa with c0 iansan and c3 chevreuse. I can clear abyss with her, but I'm not clearing SO d5 with this. I love her, but I'm aftaid by the time I get her supports to c6, she will be bad, considering with how the powercreep jumped. It won't happen soon, but lets say in a year from now on. And chances of me getting either of 4* to c6 are small, and will also depend on what 5* character banners they will be. Same happened with another character.
Also, there are various factors affecting playing including: Device, Ping, comfortability, comfort with using team, rotation time, FPS, etc.
And we know that dhcwsp (only using him as an example) works with good quality stuff. Taking myself as an example too ig, I have Skirk and Mavuika's premium team + nicely built account, and still can't clear Fearless sometimes once or twice, not only because of "skill issue" but ping and device issue as well. The more I look at clears, I understand that skills aren't THAT big factor if your device, ping, fps are all against you
Like other people aren't also doing it...
you can see the same in hsr where every low cost clear there's always SOMEONE talking about relics LCs; anything to discredit the player's skill. they fail to understand that you don't have to use a team of 4 stars. just understand and appreciate how they utilise different game mechanics, add in a few of your limited units and it should be possible without drowning in your own sweat
obviously it doesn't justify forcing your opinions on and being a dickhead to other people, but every basket's always going to have a few bad apples
Just to be clear where I am coming from, I love Genshin overall and have literally never missed a day since I started about a week after launch. I *can* clear all the endgame content up to Dire. But, I don't enjoy *any* of the three endgame modes we have. They are chores I complete once a month before I get back to the actually fun stuff (that most other players seem to find to be chores!).
It's funny that you mention Elden Ring because I absolutely love that game. I played it after Genshin earlier tonight, and I think I have put close to 300 hours into it. I would consider it among my top 3 favorite games of all time, alongside, in no particular order, The Monster Hunter Series and Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom.
Though Elden Ring is difficult (I think, perhaps, that gets overstated sometimes), it's not just simply the fact that it is hard that makes it fun. It's *how* they make it hard. It's the intermingling of complex pieces and the specific way combat works (looking for/forcing openings to use a limited moveset against aggressive enemies that are legitimately dangerous) that make it fun.
Genshin's combat isn't like that. There's very little, if any, interplay between the player and the enemy. You're just doing your own thing and what the enemy is doing is mostly irrelevant unless it's entering a super telegraphed phase. That's fine when you're spanking a weekly boss or domain, but when you're just chipping down a multi million point HP bar? Meh. So I guess I just wish I understand what aspect of the combat could be fun enough to do for 6 hours or whatever these people do.
And again, there's nothing wrong with people enjoying this. I am not shitting on it, I am explaining why I don't understand it already and how I would like to.
Just saying, I am considered weird for spending on games by the same person who spends more than me on watching the latest movies and buying expensive popcorn packs.
Human brains are simply wired differently. What turns on one person may be a complete "bleargh" to the next. No need to try to explain it.
I don't find the endgames in Genshin fun either but that is due to 2 things:
* I hate timer based challenges in any game. It just stresses me out too much. Enrage timers like in MMO raids are okay and necessary but deriving challenge from everything being JUST a DPS check is ... ugh. Especially if the enemies are boring to fight, on a mechanical level and just have a truckload of HP.
* I do not perceive them as challenges in the first place because to me, the design intent intent screams "can't clear it? Pull/Spend moar!!1". Far too much player power is tied to money spent to take any "challenge" in Gacha games seriously.
**I'm saying this as someone that did endgame level organized raiding in MMOs or well over a decade, so it's not as if I am a stranger to meta, optimizations and slowly progressing hard content.**
for another example there is a famous thought experiment. imagine a machine capable of producing the sensation of every single experience. you plug yourself in and you can try the best sx, the feeling of seeing a lost loved one, the feeling of the best party etc etc. you can choose what to feel and it will also feel 100%. not even a single difference from reality, a perfect simulation. if you say no thats ridiculous then 80% of people asked this question agree with you
what im trying to get at is part of marxist psychoanalysis, that human beings dont seek hapiness as much as they seek friction. we dont want to win. we want to be challenged and win nevertheless. we want to create with our own two hands, we want to experience with our own two hands
for a gaming example i would point towards elden ring. elden ring is pretty hard especially if you are new. it will punish you severely multiple times for the tiniest of mistakes. im a souls veteran and if i do a 100% elden ring i will die like 300 times definitely. but its one of the most famous games of all time. it got game of the year on release and when the dlc dropped its dlc would have won again if they let ot compete.
Most of the time, the boss mechanics play into it as well. I like messing with their RNG and trying to provoke certain states on them in my favor. Even with certain, really awful design, I like seeing it through to the end.
The only reason I don't ever touch dire is because I know that it's mathematically impossible for me. Otherwise, I would be beating my head against that too.
Like, one guy would go "durr hurr i USe jaHodA insTEad of SUcroSe in My FliN teAm"
And the replies would be "baSEd" "gigAchAd" "this is the CORRECT WAY (aka my way) to play genshin"
Yah sure, Sugar's EM share is nice and all but's it's not as if using any other anemo char is "way out of the box". It's still following the basic meta. :'D
I’d love to minmax but my luck with artifacts are so bad that I don’t want to waste time that I could be using on other stuff (like doomscrolling :/) than grinding but than there are people that love the grind it’s all up to how YOU like to play the game after all
Endgame min maxing? Allowed. Casual F2P primos only? Allowed. Solo character challenge clears? Allowed.
Let others play their preferred playstyle and play yours. Live and let live.
In hangouts.
The issue is when the min maxer wants too doompost all the character who don't make the cut. It gets annoying hearing everyone say the character is trash because they don't good endgame mode and ends up making some people think the character is far worse than they are.
...Or at least I'd like to say that but I have multiple friends who don't even know what artifacts are exactly but still pull for Mavuika and Skirk purely because they heard they were strong, and some who say Nod-Krai story was awful despite quitting after Fontaine because they've heard Columbina didn't turn out to be the creepy biblically accurate seraph.
So yeah. My argument is perfectly logical and that's precisely why it's null and void
Some people like certain characters a lot.
And whether they play meta or not, it's frustrating to see constant slander of those characters. Like its psychology thing.
People don't like when thing they like are insulted or looked down upon, much less for when it happens frequently as is the case with varka who isn't even released yet.
The character being strong, mid or bad is irrelevant cause the issue is not that it's more to do with the treatment by community
You can know they are bad, and accept they are bad, that doesn't mean you're gonna be happy when people constantly remind you or constantly bring up that they are bad.
No one can police opinions and conversations on the internet. If someone gets frustrated or upset that the hardcore community regards their blorbo as low-tier or whatever, it's up to that person to understand *why* and realize that those opinions aren't applicable in the same way; it's a different language not for them. It kinda sounds like I'm just saying "they need to cope," but they kind of will need to.
It will be easier in the long run for people to learn out to differentiate between criticism of gameplay and meta and criticism of their own likes and choices.
It doesn't bother me that Cyno and Clorinde aren't competitively meta as they used to be and need to be carried by supports, I'm still gonna use them regardless of community conversation.
It still creates an unfun environment for people.
It still creates an unfun environment for people.
Remember last year, when like 10% of posts in various Genshin subs were shitting on Natlan for whatever reason? Not enough men, too much power of friendship, weird costume design, too white, whatever? It weighs on you if you like the thing people are hating on. Like it or not, we are social creatures, and we soak up the atmosphere of our social environment. If everyone hates something you like, a very real part of your brain starts asking what's wrong with you, if you have bad taste, if you need to change, because we are literally programmed by evolution to think that people at large know more than individual persons, and to make others happy.
People get on their high horses and tell everyone not to care what others think, but that advice has been given since ancient times, and we have never been good at it as a species, because in the end it does serve us well to conform to an extent.
So really, we just want to be around people who like the things we like, and we feel bad when that doesn't happen. All the prefrontal cortex in the world won't out-logic the need to vibe with your community.
"POWERCREEP IS YOUR FAULT DON'T YA KNOW"
Even A12 gives so little rewards, that it's -literally- not worth it to pull even one character just to be able co clear it.
So pull & play meta if it is FUN for you in itself, do not feel obligated to pull for meta just because there is a miniscule Gacha currency reward associated with it.
Been playing since 1.0 and never been able to do it.
And the """"""ironic"""""" agenda posting made other people sour on meta players.
"You don't need to do the super hard modes to get the primos, so just stop". Well, you don't need new characters to enjoy the story, so stop doing anything but the quests. See how ridiculous that logic gets?
People enjoy different things.
An example I remember is someone saying mono-dendro teams were good...
His main complaint is like people said, the end game was too easy. He has no cons, and very few sigs. I'm not sure how much he says is truth but I do know some things about him. His builds are top tier and he actually invests very well into his team, and he also has impeccable team building, able to recognize how to optimize and maximize his damage.
I might be wrong but because of how he clears, hes basically drilled it into me that meta characters isnt as important as it seems as long as you know what youre doing. For example, his clear for the first boss in fearless this time is sucrose, columbina, ineffa, aino. He has no flins nor nefer (afaik he has no plans to use them, he onlypulled bina ineffa for varesa wheelchair), but I also know ppl whohave nefer and flins premium struggling.
Instead of treating him like he's an idiot, maybe just ask what are the 2.0 or 3.0 team his friend uses. Then you can clown on him if says team that aren’t from those version. If you gonna be a prick at least be a reasonable prick.
Meta gaming communities have optimized the fun out of the game, and every time they clear things and call it too easy they want things harder, and it just starts to snowball.
Casuals on the other hand just want to have fun without engaging in the harder content, or have bare minimum to earn premium currency.
In the end no matter what the devs do it is a lose-lose to the at this point. The community will never be truly happy.
Also, a meta character with a good team and proper rotation can do a lot of the heavy lifting on accounts that aren't particularly well-built. So it's really annoying when someone asks questions about how to play a character better or which supports to get and then they get shut down because "it doesn't matter for a player like you". Like, if someone shows interest, let them learn??
But whenever i see a clear on YouTube with a Ningguang, Sethos, Cyno, Tighnari, etc I always watch it, because it's actually really fun seeing people clear with their favs and do complicated rotations to really squeeze out every drop of damage.
Will i ever dedicate that much time into this game?? No. But there's something really endearing seeing people take the effort and really maximize their damage. Idk why it's a bad thing to....like the game. If someone enjoys a different aspect of the game than you then let them. It's literally meant to be that way.
If I post a clear using Keqing/Columbina/Sucrose/Ineffa, which is a team where Keqing has synergy with the supports, all I will get are comments of “holy fucking wheelchair” or “are you even playing Keqing at this point?” (Even on the KeqingMains sub that’s a thing.)
And this isn’t a new thing. For years people have shit on anyone who dares to enjoy Yoimiya. Moment someone says they play her 20 dudes jump down their throat to say how “Hu Tao is better” (remember this is pre-Mavuika/Arle.)
As it turns out… people are just assholes for no reason. It’s a PvE game, play how you want. But subsequently don’t tell others how they’re allowed to enjoy the game. If that means you enjoy doing crazy kick flip combos on Mavuika then by all means flex those skills! If that means you’re a machine-gun Fischl main then keep firing away!